> Subject: Barks Bear Book
There is one listed on ebay now with a buy it now price of $17.99
here is the address:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=746762591
Author
Topic: 200212
(225 messages)
UNDBKB
Barks Bear Book
Message 121 -
2002-12-11 at 17:41:55
Donald D. Markstein
HooZoo, Panchito & Mouseton
Message 122 -
2002-12-11 at 18:00:03
> Nope, it's not "fan speculation" as it came directly from the
> lips (do chickens have lips??? :-) of Panchito as he sang "The
> Panchito Song" about the origin of his very long name. This
> happened in the HOUSE OF MOUSE episode "Not Too Goofy" (January
> 19, 2002). The episode dealt with Goofy trying to be "un-goofy"
> after everyone complains about him. Mickey brings in Jose
> Carioca to teach Goofy to be more refined. It works too well
> and Goofy forgets who he really is, so, in an effort to make
> Goofy proud of who he is the Three Caballeros (Panchito, Donald
> and Jose) sing the song about who Panchito is. Of course since
> it's about Panchito, he primarily sings the song.
What a great source! Authentic and yet obscure, the sort of thing not just
anybody would know. It almost makes me want to write Panchito up for the
Toonopedia just so I can include it.. Thanks for sharing it.
Quack, Don
Today in Toons: Every day's an anniversary.
http://www.toonopedia.com/today.htm
> lips (do chickens have lips??? :-) of Panchito as he sang "The
> Panchito Song" about the origin of his very long name. This
> happened in the HOUSE OF MOUSE episode "Not Too Goofy" (January
> 19, 2002). The episode dealt with Goofy trying to be "un-goofy"
> after everyone complains about him. Mickey brings in Jose
> Carioca to teach Goofy to be more refined. It works too well
> and Goofy forgets who he really is, so, in an effort to make
> Goofy proud of who he is the Three Caballeros (Panchito, Donald
> and Jose) sing the song about who Panchito is. Of course since
> it's about Panchito, he primarily sings the song.
What a great source! Authentic and yet obscure, the sort of thing not just
anybody would know. It almost makes me want to write Panchito up for the
Toonopedia just so I can include it.. Thanks for sharing it.
Quack, Don
Today in Toons: Every day's an anniversary.
http://www.toonopedia.com/today.htm
Xephyr
(no subject)
Message 123 -
2002-12-11 at 20:37:54
Last time I said:
> I suppose it's possible that Panchito was even born in
> Bahia, though that would take away from his "Mexican"
> heritage as a uniquely Mexican Disney character, so I
> prefer to assume that his parents met in Brazil, married
> and moved to Mexico where he was later born.
Well, I was listening to the song again and, if taken at
face value, it does indeed sound as if Panchito was born in
Bahia as the words state that his father, Miguel was from
Ecuador and moved to Bahia where he married Maria and he
and Maria had Panchito. It's still possible they moved
to Mexico before having Panchito, but the song does not
mention any move by his parents or even by Panchito, but we
know it was established in the film "The Three Caballeros"
that Panchito is "from Mexico." Whether he was born there
or moved there later is probably something best left to
some future writer.
HOWEVER, the song continues to explain that Panchito has
relatives all over Latin and South America [explicitly
mentioning Chile, Peru, Bahia (Brazil), Ecuador, Mexico
and even Dallas (Texas)], which, in essence, make Panchito
the consummate Latin America character, and not JUST a
Mexican character as was implied by the original film.
-Rich Bellacera
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> I suppose it's possible that Panchito was even born in
> Bahia, though that would take away from his "Mexican"
> heritage as a uniquely Mexican Disney character, so I
> prefer to assume that his parents met in Brazil, married
> and moved to Mexico where he was later born.
Well, I was listening to the song again and, if taken at
face value, it does indeed sound as if Panchito was born in
Bahia as the words state that his father, Miguel was from
Ecuador and moved to Bahia where he married Maria and he
and Maria had Panchito. It's still possible they moved
to Mexico before having Panchito, but the song does not
mention any move by his parents or even by Panchito, but we
know it was established in the film "The Three Caballeros"
that Panchito is "from Mexico." Whether he was born there
or moved there later is probably something best left to
some future writer.
HOWEVER, the song continues to explain that Panchito has
relatives all over Latin and South America [explicitly
mentioning Chile, Peru, Bahia (Brazil), Ecuador, Mexico
and even Dallas (Texas)], which, in essence, make Panchito
the consummate Latin America character, and not JUST a
Mexican character as was implied by the original film.
-Rich Bellacera
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
Mateusz Lis
I need help from Italian & Finnish members
Message 124 -
2002-12-12 at 12:37:58
Hi all,
Yesterday I receive a mail with a list of comics for sale. Which of these
comics contain, in your opinion, the best stories?
TOPOLINO:
1481, 1651, 1652, 1665, 1668, 1672, 1685, 1686, 1688, 1690, 1691, 1697,
1698, 1699, 1700, 1703, 1704, 1714, 1719, 1720, 1721, 1723, 1725, 1726,
1728, 1731, 1733, 1737, 1738, 1739, 1740, 1741, 1742, 1743, 1744, 1745,
1746, 1776, 1806, 1807, 1840, 1841, 1842, 1843, 1911, 1912.
I GRANDI CLASSICI DISNEY
22( Luglio 1986)
I CLASSICI DI WALT DISNEY
122(Febrario 1987), 144(Novembre 1988), 184(Marzo 1992)
SUPER BRACCIO DI FERRO 144 (Settembre 1984)
And:
ROOPE-SETA 70,71,72,76,79,80,87
Best wishes,
Mateusz Lis
--------------------------
http://disneymania.prv.pl
http://www.disneyzone.tk
Yesterday I receive a mail with a list of comics for sale. Which of these
comics contain, in your opinion, the best stories?
TOPOLINO:
1481, 1651, 1652, 1665, 1668, 1672, 1685, 1686, 1688, 1690, 1691, 1697,
1698, 1699, 1700, 1703, 1704, 1714, 1719, 1720, 1721, 1723, 1725, 1726,
1728, 1731, 1733, 1737, 1738, 1739, 1740, 1741, 1742, 1743, 1744, 1745,
1746, 1776, 1806, 1807, 1840, 1841, 1842, 1843, 1911, 1912.
I GRANDI CLASSICI DISNEY
22( Luglio 1986)
I CLASSICI DI WALT DISNEY
122(Febrario 1987), 144(Novembre 1988), 184(Marzo 1992)
SUPER BRACCIO DI FERRO 144 (Settembre 1984)
And:
ROOPE-SETA 70,71,72,76,79,80,87
Best wishes,
Mateusz Lis
--------------------------
http://disneymania.prv.pl
http://www.disneyzone.tk
Xephyr
Mickey's "popularity" (or lack there of)
Message 125 -
2002-12-12 at 22:01:10
I don't agree that Mickey's lack of appeal to readers has anything to do
with whether or not he's employed or out detecting the Phantom Blot, but I
certainly agree that the stories Gottfredson wrote for him (also Scarpa,
and, from what few I've seen, Gerstein), as Mickey, to me, works best in
"adventure" sagas, not as a one page or 5 page story. Mickey's lack of
appeal seems to be more in how very few people can relate to him as a
character. Mickey is the consummate "good guy." Donald, by contrast, is
overly emotional, argumentative, and ocassionally even a "bad guy" (not the
way he sometimes treats his Nephews or his cousins, or even Daisy. Donald
is a lot easier to relate to than Mickey is. Donald is constantly having
streaks of "bad luck" and misadventures. Mickey almost ALWAYS comes out on
top as the winner. I think that this is due to Corporate directive
concerning how the creators are allowed to portray him, but I think this
works to his detriment. Mickey needs some more versatility. In the old
days, Gottfredson seemed to write a much more "human" Mickey... one who was
down on his luck, lost with no hope of finding his way home, or whatever,
and the cliff-hangers leave you hoping Mickey will find a way out of his
terrible streak of luck.
Of ocurse there's much more to Mickey than I just portrayed, but I think
that if Mickey had a personality that people could empathize with,
something that they could relate to that feels similar to their own life,
I'm sure his comics would be more appealing.
Evenso, I love Mickey and, as we currently get no new comics in the USA, I
love to re-read his stories more than Donald and Scrooge's. I also love
Mickey's supporting cast (Minnie, Horace, Pluto, Morty & Ferdie, Bip-Bip,
Eega Beeva, Bruto, Prof. Einmug, Pete, Trudy, etc.), and wish we could see
more of them here, too (actually Trudy, Bruto & Bip-Bip have never been
published in the USA, but I have several Italian and Brazilian comics with
them).
-Rich Bellacera
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://mail2web.com/ .
with whether or not he's employed or out detecting the Phantom Blot, but I
certainly agree that the stories Gottfredson wrote for him (also Scarpa,
and, from what few I've seen, Gerstein), as Mickey, to me, works best in
"adventure" sagas, not as a one page or 5 page story. Mickey's lack of
appeal seems to be more in how very few people can relate to him as a
character. Mickey is the consummate "good guy." Donald, by contrast, is
overly emotional, argumentative, and ocassionally even a "bad guy" (not the
way he sometimes treats his Nephews or his cousins, or even Daisy. Donald
is a lot easier to relate to than Mickey is. Donald is constantly having
streaks of "bad luck" and misadventures. Mickey almost ALWAYS comes out on
top as the winner. I think that this is due to Corporate directive
concerning how the creators are allowed to portray him, but I think this
works to his detriment. Mickey needs some more versatility. In the old
days, Gottfredson seemed to write a much more "human" Mickey... one who was
down on his luck, lost with no hope of finding his way home, or whatever,
and the cliff-hangers leave you hoping Mickey will find a way out of his
terrible streak of luck.
Of ocurse there's much more to Mickey than I just portrayed, but I think
that if Mickey had a personality that people could empathize with,
something that they could relate to that feels similar to their own life,
I'm sure his comics would be more appealing.
Evenso, I love Mickey and, as we currently get no new comics in the USA, I
love to re-read his stories more than Donald and Scrooge's. I also love
Mickey's supporting cast (Minnie, Horace, Pluto, Morty & Ferdie, Bip-Bip,
Eega Beeva, Bruto, Prof. Einmug, Pete, Trudy, etc.), and wish we could see
more of them here, too (actually Trudy, Bruto & Bip-Bip have never been
published in the USA, but I have several Italian and Brazilian comics with
them).
-Rich Bellacera
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
Miki Peorth Kagome
New member
Message 126 -
2002-12-13 at 03:34:48
Hi guys!
Just wanna say that i'm new here.
i love Disney comics and videos. i draw a lot of
Disney, too ^^'
anyway, I'm 17 yrs old girl from Brazil. nice to meet
you all.
Miki
_______________________________________________________________________
Busca Yahoo!
O melhor lugar para encontrar tudo o que voc? procura na Internet
http://br.busca.yahoo.com/
Just wanna say that i'm new here.
i love Disney comics and videos. i draw a lot of
Disney, too ^^'
anyway, I'm 17 yrs old girl from Brazil. nice to meet
you all.
Miki
_______________________________________________________________________
Busca Yahoo!
O melhor lugar para encontrar tudo o que voc? procura na Internet
http://br.busca.yahoo.com/
Simo Malinen
I need help from Italian & Finnish members
Message 127 -
2002-12-13 at 16:50:38
>Yesterday I receive a mail with a list of comics for sale. Which of these
>comics contain, in your opinion, the best stories?
>
>And:
>
>ROOPE-SETA 70,71,72,76,79,80,87
>
>
I'm afraid all of the mentioned RS issues from the middle of the 80's
are having rather bulky interior.
However RS 76 (12/1985) is having one somehow-special story drawn
by Giorgio Cavazzano, (S 72197 "The Mystery Of The Shrinking Men")
Beautiful flying artwork - very much Romano Scarpa looking by the way.
Here's a list (data from the Inducks) of the stories those RS issues
are having. Titles are marked here in English (or in Italian) - but
all stories in Roope-seta issues are naturally in Finnish:
RS 70 (6/1985):
1) Magica De Spell: "Zio Paperone e le conchiglie magiche", I TL 1051-B, 24
pages
art by Tiberio Colantuoni
2) Goofy: "Aunt Tessie-svengali", S 79035, 14 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
3) The Junior Woodchucks: "The Hoot-Owl Heroes", W JW 47-01, 15 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) The Big Bad Wolf: "The Magic Lamp", S 79015, 11 pages
art by ?
5) Super Goof: "Super Do-Gooder", W SG 39-01, 16 pages
art by Roger Armstrong
6) Donald Duck: "The Masquerade Party-poopers", S 78141, 14 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
RS 71 (7/1985):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e il segno premonitore", I TL 1300-A, 32
pages
art by Giovan Battista Carpi
2) Mickey Mouse: "Topolino e l'oro caduto dal cielo", I TL 1310-B, 30 pages
art by Ferre
3) Uncle Scrooge: "Coffee for Two", W OS 386-03, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
4) The Big Bad Wolf: "The Fairy Wolfmother", S 70258, 11 pages
art by Glenn Schmitz
5) Super Goof: "The Big Wheeler", W SG 47-03, 11 pages
art by Pete Alvarado
6) Donald Duck: "Two of a Kind", W D&D 9-02, 10 pages
art by Bob Gregory
RS 72 (8/1985):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e lo zufolo peruviano", I TL 1309-B, 23
pages
art by Bargadà Studio
2) Mickey Mouse: "The Strange Tale Of Jester And The Giant", D 6180, 28
pages
art by Santanach
3) Donald Duck: "The Wild Life", W D&D 12-04, 8 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Immovable Miser", W US 25-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) Bambi: "Sing, Sing, Sing", S 79228, 8 pages
art by Jack Bradbury
6) Mickey Mouse: "It's A Blast", S 78146, 12 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
7) Uncle Scrooge: "Tropical Treasure", S 78044, 15 pages
art by ?
RS 76 (12/1985):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e il primato conteso", I TL 1322-A, 35 pages
art by Bargadà Studio
2) Mickey Mouse: "The Mystery Of The Shrinking Men", S 72197, 30 pages
art by Giorgio Cavazzano/Romano Scarpa?
3) Uncle Scrooge: "Oil the News", W US 6-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
4) Bambi: "Seeing Everything", S 79233, 8 pages
art by ?
5) Super Goof: "The Banana Peel Plot", W SG 55-02, 8 pages
art by Kay Wright
6) Uncle Scrooge: "Money and Magic", W US 182-01, 13 pages
art by Bob Gregory
RS 79 (3/1986):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Of Blue Sapphires And Luna-Birds", D 6200, 26 pages
art by Guardia
2) Mickey Mouse: "The Great Fool's Gold Rush", S 72015, 19 pages
art by Guido Scala
3) The Beagle Boys: "Mascot Woes", W BB 46-01, 9 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Ballet Evasions", W US 4-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) Brer Fox: "Brer Bear - Boxer", S 77118, 15 pages
art by ?
6) Goofy: "The Napkin Ring", S 74010, 8 pages
art by Jack Bradbury
7) Uncle Scrooge: "Thrown for a Loss", W BBVS 7-02, 6 pages
art by Jack Manning
8) Donald and Daisy: "Child's Play", W D&D 44-03, 11 pages
art by Bob Gregory
RS 80 (4/1986):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "The Genie In The Lamp", D 6436, 23 pages
art by Guardia
2) Mickey Mouse: "A Girl's Best Friend", D 6230, 27 pages
art by Santanach
3) Donald Duck: "The Master Dripsman", W D&D 5-04, 8 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Easy Mowing", W US 9-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) The Big Bad Wolf: "The Beneficial Accident", S 78115, 11 pages
art by ?
6) The Beagle Boys: "Break Out...break In", S 75055, 8 pages
art by Tony Strobl
7) The Junior Woodchucks: "Old Sloop Snoot", W JW 52-01, 12 pages
art by Kay Wright
RS 87 (11/1986):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e l'occhio di Tuticos", I TL 1375-B, 27
pages
art by Maurizio Amendola
2) The Beagle Boys: "Hobby Show", S 79190, 14 pages
art by Bob Gregory
3) Donald Duck: "Little Animals", S 79009, 6 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Tree Trick", W US 33-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) Donald Duck: "The Great Cackle Caper", S 75087, 20 pages
art by Marco Rota
6) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e i furti in diretta", I TL 1363-B, 26 pages
art by Guido Scala
- Simo
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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>comics contain, in your opinion, the best stories?
>
>And:
>
>ROOPE-SETA 70,71,72,76,79,80,87
>
>
I'm afraid all of the mentioned RS issues from the middle of the 80's
are having rather bulky interior.
However RS 76 (12/1985) is having one somehow-special story drawn
by Giorgio Cavazzano, (S 72197 "The Mystery Of The Shrinking Men")
Beautiful flying artwork - very much Romano Scarpa looking by the way.
Here's a list (data from the Inducks) of the stories those RS issues
are having. Titles are marked here in English (or in Italian) - but
all stories in Roope-seta issues are naturally in Finnish:
RS 70 (6/1985):
1) Magica De Spell: "Zio Paperone e le conchiglie magiche", I TL 1051-B, 24
pages
art by Tiberio Colantuoni
2) Goofy: "Aunt Tessie-svengali", S 79035, 14 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
3) The Junior Woodchucks: "The Hoot-Owl Heroes", W JW 47-01, 15 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) The Big Bad Wolf: "The Magic Lamp", S 79015, 11 pages
art by ?
5) Super Goof: "Super Do-Gooder", W SG 39-01, 16 pages
art by Roger Armstrong
6) Donald Duck: "The Masquerade Party-poopers", S 78141, 14 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
RS 71 (7/1985):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e il segno premonitore", I TL 1300-A, 32
pages
art by Giovan Battista Carpi
2) Mickey Mouse: "Topolino e l'oro caduto dal cielo", I TL 1310-B, 30 pages
art by Ferre
3) Uncle Scrooge: "Coffee for Two", W OS 386-03, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
4) The Big Bad Wolf: "The Fairy Wolfmother", S 70258, 11 pages
art by Glenn Schmitz
5) Super Goof: "The Big Wheeler", W SG 47-03, 11 pages
art by Pete Alvarado
6) Donald Duck: "Two of a Kind", W D&D 9-02, 10 pages
art by Bob Gregory
RS 72 (8/1985):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e lo zufolo peruviano", I TL 1309-B, 23
pages
art by Bargadà Studio
2) Mickey Mouse: "The Strange Tale Of Jester And The Giant", D 6180, 28
pages
art by Santanach
3) Donald Duck: "The Wild Life", W D&D 12-04, 8 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Immovable Miser", W US 25-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) Bambi: "Sing, Sing, Sing", S 79228, 8 pages
art by Jack Bradbury
6) Mickey Mouse: "It's A Blast", S 78146, 12 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
7) Uncle Scrooge: "Tropical Treasure", S 78044, 15 pages
art by ?
RS 76 (12/1985):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e il primato conteso", I TL 1322-A, 35 pages
art by Bargadà Studio
2) Mickey Mouse: "The Mystery Of The Shrinking Men", S 72197, 30 pages
art by Giorgio Cavazzano/Romano Scarpa?
3) Uncle Scrooge: "Oil the News", W US 6-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
4) Bambi: "Seeing Everything", S 79233, 8 pages
art by ?
5) Super Goof: "The Banana Peel Plot", W SG 55-02, 8 pages
art by Kay Wright
6) Uncle Scrooge: "Money and Magic", W US 182-01, 13 pages
art by Bob Gregory
RS 79 (3/1986):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Of Blue Sapphires And Luna-Birds", D 6200, 26 pages
art by Guardia
2) Mickey Mouse: "The Great Fool's Gold Rush", S 72015, 19 pages
art by Guido Scala
3) The Beagle Boys: "Mascot Woes", W BB 46-01, 9 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Ballet Evasions", W US 4-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) Brer Fox: "Brer Bear - Boxer", S 77118, 15 pages
art by ?
6) Goofy: "The Napkin Ring", S 74010, 8 pages
art by Jack Bradbury
7) Uncle Scrooge: "Thrown for a Loss", W BBVS 7-02, 6 pages
art by Jack Manning
8) Donald and Daisy: "Child's Play", W D&D 44-03, 11 pages
art by Bob Gregory
RS 80 (4/1986):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "The Genie In The Lamp", D 6436, 23 pages
art by Guardia
2) Mickey Mouse: "A Girl's Best Friend", D 6230, 27 pages
art by Santanach
3) Donald Duck: "The Master Dripsman", W D&D 5-04, 8 pages
art by Bob Gregory
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Easy Mowing", W US 9-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) The Big Bad Wolf: "The Beneficial Accident", S 78115, 11 pages
art by ?
6) The Beagle Boys: "Break Out...break In", S 75055, 8 pages
art by Tony Strobl
7) The Junior Woodchucks: "Old Sloop Snoot", W JW 52-01, 12 pages
art by Kay Wright
RS 87 (11/1986):
1) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e l'occhio di Tuticos", I TL 1375-B, 27
pages
art by Maurizio Amendola
2) The Beagle Boys: "Hobby Show", S 79190, 14 pages
art by Bob Gregory
3) Donald Duck: "Little Animals", S 79009, 6 pages
art by Jaime Diaz Studio
4) Uncle Scrooge: "Tree Trick", W US 33-01, 1 page
art by Carl Barks
5) Donald Duck: "The Great Cackle Caper", S 75087, 20 pages
art by Marco Rota
6) Uncle Scrooge: "Zio Paperone e i furti in diretta", I TL 1363-B, 26 pages
art by Guido Scala
- Simo
_________________________________________________________________
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Simo Malinen
For Finnish Scarpa fans
Message 128 -
2002-12-13 at 16:51:31
Don't miss the latest issue of Roope-setä, 280 (12/2002).
It's having xmas story drawn by Romano Scarpa: I TL 2091-1
"Hyvät teot" ("Zio Paperone e le buone azioni"), 39 pages,
1st published in 1995, written by Carlo Gentina and inked
by Lucio Migheli.
Rest of the book equals with Danish "Onkel Joakim 25/1996"
but this opening Scarpa story has been token from somewhere
outside. It replaces some other Italian 39-pages story - but
somehow atleast I do like this change.
- Simo
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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It's having xmas story drawn by Romano Scarpa: I TL 2091-1
"Hyvät teot" ("Zio Paperone e le buone azioni"), 39 pages,
1st published in 1995, written by Carlo Gentina and inked
by Lucio Migheli.
Rest of the book equals with Danish "Onkel Joakim 25/1996"
but this opening Scarpa story has been token from somewhere
outside. It replaces some other Italian 39-pages story - but
somehow atleast I do like this change.
- Simo
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
DYER,SONIA (HP-Cupertino,ex1)
New member
Message 129 -
2002-12-13 at 20:42:55
Welcome to the group Miki, from all of us :>)
Sonia
Sonia
The Fenske's
Real quality ("correct" comics)
Message 130 -
2002-12-14 at 12:37:11
At 07:24 PM 12/10/02 +0100, you wrote:
>SIGVALD in reaction to DAVE FENSKE:
>
>Dave>> Calvin & Hobbes is popular because it's both very funny
> >> (not at all a bad thing), and it makes observations about
> >> us (life, family, friendship, interactions with peers,
> >> the world of the imagination, etc.) that are both
> >> poignant and accurate.
> >
>Sigvald> These qualities may fit well for a simple news paper
> > strip, but IMO it looks a bit strange in big hard cover
> > books.
>
>Michiel: Er, Sigvald? Dave is actually trying to say that Calvin &
>Hobbes is, because of these very qualities, *not* a *simple*
>newspaper strip.
Exactly. In fact, Watterson found the limitations of the Sunday
strips "limiting," and fought hard to be able to break out of the
linear box kind of thing. If you look at some of his colour Sunday
strips, you find great creativity in design and layout that really
look wonderful in a book format. The Essential C&H, for example,
is wonderful to sit and read and just look at, because the colour
strips really come to life. True, the b&w daily strips aren't
particularly improved in the book format, except they bring
continuing strips together in one place.
>Dave>> I have a large collection of Disney comics from the
> >> 60's, when I was young. Many contain great Barks
> >> stories, but there are a lot of rather juvenile (and
> >> totally shallow as far as reflections on life are
> >> concerned)
> >
>Sigvald> Of course they are - real quality comics should be
> > concerned about entertaining not about reflecting.
> > Well of course reflections itselves doesn't make a
> > comics bad, but a comics can IMO *only* be concerned
> > as good if it's entertaining - just like as it is
> > with movies.
>
>Michiel: Are you trying to say that 'real quality comics' *should* be
>'rather juvenile' and 'totally shallow'?
That's what it sounds like, but I can't believe Sigvald means it quite
that way. What do you (Sigvald) mean by "entertaining" anyway?
Of course I'm not going to read a comic or watch a movie that is
boring or dull, but if by entertaining you mean "devoid of deeper
meaning," then I couldn't disagree more. Now, a Disney comic
(even one by Rosa) isn't going to get all dark and philosophical.
However, what Don does offer us are characters well drawn (and
I mean that in a psychological sense) with believable motivations
in a story that is fun and interesting. He creates a world we want
to inhabit. C&H does that as well, and offers us insight into ourselves
at the same time. Contrast that with the rather trite Duck stories that
were in many of the old Gold Key comics. Those stories were just
childish, not very entertaining, and not very funny either. The best
stories are always going to operate on 2 levels: the fun entertaining
story, and something deeper, be that insight, or character development,
or whatever.
This is a little off-topic, but you mention movies. And here I feel we may
disagree even more. I enjoy a movie that is entertaining, but the
films I really enjoy, and the ones that stay with me, are the ones that
give us some insight into the human condition. Now, this isn't always
the case: some films are just so well made that even if they aren't
deep, they are genuinely funny or touching or whatever (think of Mel Gibson
in Maverick, for example), and are still worth watching. But some,
take Star Wars, for example, are entertaining on the surface, but offer
something more: what made the original trilogy great
were the themes of good, evil, and ultimate redemption, that ran through
them. Some films are really heavy on the meaning or message, and aren't
necessarily fun to watch (and therefore may not be considered entertaining),
but leave you thinking, or emotionally impacted. The Canadian film
"The Sweet Hereafter" falls into this category, or even a film like
"The English Patient" (hmmm... another Canadian one) or Monster's Ball.
Those are still good (or even great) films.
>Dave>> But a comic like Calvin & Hobbes, or Bloom County, is
> >> about so much more. Sure, the humor is there, thankfully,
> >> but those comics also contain a lot of insight, political
> >> commentary, etc.
> >
>Sigvald> So what? As stated above comics should IMO first be
> > concerned
> > about entertaining, not act like "60 minutes".
>
>Michiel: I think that reflections on 'life, the universe and
>everything' *do* make a comic (or a book, or a movie) more
>entertaining ('onderhoudend') and more worthwile to read.
>
>(What do you mean by 'act like "60 minutes"'?)
And going back to the "so what" part, the inclusion of a bit
of politics, or current issues, or human condition, can make
the comic more interesting, as long as it doesn't overpower
the story. Kind of like the little historical facts that Don puts in his
stories.
> > No I mean that it's *in* among "cool" people. These
> > people can say "Donald Duck is for kids",
>
>Michiel: I don't know if these people are either "correct" or "cool",
>but I think they might like Calvin & Hobbes and other gag
>comics just because these are funny or also because of
>Watterson's artwork and the realistic, if cynical, worldview
>of its main characters.
>Which is exactly why I like Barks' stories, for example.
>(Funniness, good art and very real characters.)
>
>I think that somewhat the same criteria can be applied to
>define good long stories as well as good gag comics.
>
>By the way, Donald Duck *is* for kids, they're the main
>audience. Donald Duck is only not *just* for kids. Good Duck
>stories have certain qualities that appeal also to a more
>mature audience, but a Duck story that can't in any way be
>enjoyed by children has missed its target.
I would tend to agree here, except: a few years ago I read my
younger kids Don Rosa's long wonderful story about the
JW guidebook and the libraries of antiquity... and they found
it kind of boring. It had lots of traveling and cool historical
facts and I loved it, but they didn't. Perhaps that one was more
aimed at adults, but for me it didn't miss the mark.
>
> > Well, I am different, I prefer long comics stories
> > with an intelligent plot. So I very seldom read
> > modern humor gags comics.
>
>So do I. I prefer intelligent comics in general. So
>fortunately I'm able to enjoy both: gag comics as well as
>long stories.
>
> >> or the better super-hero stories (of which there are a >>
>few that are worthy of consideration).
> >
> > I don't read such super-hero stuff (well except from
> > Captain Kentucky).
>
>Maybe you should give it a try.
>Take for instance "Watchmen" by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons.
>It's a long, humorous, if cynical, comic story with an
>intelligent plot.
>
>Michiel Prior.
>_______________________________________________
>http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml
>SIGVALD in reaction to DAVE FENSKE:
>
>Dave>> Calvin & Hobbes is popular because it's both very funny
> >> (not at all a bad thing), and it makes observations about
> >> us (life, family, friendship, interactions with peers,
> >> the world of the imagination, etc.) that are both
> >> poignant and accurate.
> >
>Sigvald> These qualities may fit well for a simple news paper
> > strip, but IMO it looks a bit strange in big hard cover
> > books.
>
>Michiel: Er, Sigvald? Dave is actually trying to say that Calvin &
>Hobbes is, because of these very qualities, *not* a *simple*
>newspaper strip.
Exactly. In fact, Watterson found the limitations of the Sunday
strips "limiting," and fought hard to be able to break out of the
linear box kind of thing. If you look at some of his colour Sunday
strips, you find great creativity in design and layout that really
look wonderful in a book format. The Essential C&H, for example,
is wonderful to sit and read and just look at, because the colour
strips really come to life. True, the b&w daily strips aren't
particularly improved in the book format, except they bring
continuing strips together in one place.
>Dave>> I have a large collection of Disney comics from the
> >> 60's, when I was young. Many contain great Barks
> >> stories, but there are a lot of rather juvenile (and
> >> totally shallow as far as reflections on life are
> >> concerned)
> >
>Sigvald> Of course they are - real quality comics should be
> > concerned about entertaining not about reflecting.
> > Well of course reflections itselves doesn't make a
> > comics bad, but a comics can IMO *only* be concerned
> > as good if it's entertaining - just like as it is
> > with movies.
>
>Michiel: Are you trying to say that 'real quality comics' *should* be
>'rather juvenile' and 'totally shallow'?
That's what it sounds like, but I can't believe Sigvald means it quite
that way. What do you (Sigvald) mean by "entertaining" anyway?
Of course I'm not going to read a comic or watch a movie that is
boring or dull, but if by entertaining you mean "devoid of deeper
meaning," then I couldn't disagree more. Now, a Disney comic
(even one by Rosa) isn't going to get all dark and philosophical.
However, what Don does offer us are characters well drawn (and
I mean that in a psychological sense) with believable motivations
in a story that is fun and interesting. He creates a world we want
to inhabit. C&H does that as well, and offers us insight into ourselves
at the same time. Contrast that with the rather trite Duck stories that
were in many of the old Gold Key comics. Those stories were just
childish, not very entertaining, and not very funny either. The best
stories are always going to operate on 2 levels: the fun entertaining
story, and something deeper, be that insight, or character development,
or whatever.
This is a little off-topic, but you mention movies. And here I feel we may
disagree even more. I enjoy a movie that is entertaining, but the
films I really enjoy, and the ones that stay with me, are the ones that
give us some insight into the human condition. Now, this isn't always
the case: some films are just so well made that even if they aren't
deep, they are genuinely funny or touching or whatever (think of Mel Gibson
in Maverick, for example), and are still worth watching. But some,
take Star Wars, for example, are entertaining on the surface, but offer
something more: what made the original trilogy great
were the themes of good, evil, and ultimate redemption, that ran through
them. Some films are really heavy on the meaning or message, and aren't
necessarily fun to watch (and therefore may not be considered entertaining),
but leave you thinking, or emotionally impacted. The Canadian film
"The Sweet Hereafter" falls into this category, or even a film like
"The English Patient" (hmmm... another Canadian one) or Monster's Ball.
Those are still good (or even great) films.
>Dave>> But a comic like Calvin & Hobbes, or Bloom County, is
> >> about so much more. Sure, the humor is there, thankfully,
> >> but those comics also contain a lot of insight, political
> >> commentary, etc.
> >
>Sigvald> So what? As stated above comics should IMO first be
> > concerned
> > about entertaining, not act like "60 minutes".
>
>Michiel: I think that reflections on 'life, the universe and
>everything' *do* make a comic (or a book, or a movie) more
>entertaining ('onderhoudend') and more worthwile to read.
>
>(What do you mean by 'act like "60 minutes"'?)
And going back to the "so what" part, the inclusion of a bit
of politics, or current issues, or human condition, can make
the comic more interesting, as long as it doesn't overpower
the story. Kind of like the little historical facts that Don puts in his
stories.
> > No I mean that it's *in* among "cool" people. These
> > people can say "Donald Duck is for kids",
>
>Michiel: I don't know if these people are either "correct" or "cool",
>but I think they might like Calvin & Hobbes and other gag
>comics just because these are funny or also because of
>Watterson's artwork and the realistic, if cynical, worldview
>of its main characters.
>Which is exactly why I like Barks' stories, for example.
>(Funniness, good art and very real characters.)
>
>I think that somewhat the same criteria can be applied to
>define good long stories as well as good gag comics.
>
>By the way, Donald Duck *is* for kids, they're the main
>audience. Donald Duck is only not *just* for kids. Good Duck
>stories have certain qualities that appeal also to a more
>mature audience, but a Duck story that can't in any way be
>enjoyed by children has missed its target.
I would tend to agree here, except: a few years ago I read my
younger kids Don Rosa's long wonderful story about the
JW guidebook and the libraries of antiquity... and they found
it kind of boring. It had lots of traveling and cool historical
facts and I loved it, but they didn't. Perhaps that one was more
aimed at adults, but for me it didn't miss the mark.
>
> > Well, I am different, I prefer long comics stories
> > with an intelligent plot. So I very seldom read
> > modern humor gags comics.
>
>So do I. I prefer intelligent comics in general. So
>fortunately I'm able to enjoy both: gag comics as well as
>long stories.
>
> >> or the better super-hero stories (of which there are a >>
>few that are worthy of consideration).
> >
> > I don't read such super-hero stuff (well except from
> > Captain Kentucky).
>
>Maybe you should give it a try.
>Take for instance "Watchmen" by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons.
>It's a long, humorous, if cynical, comic story with an
>intelligent plot.
>
>Michiel Prior.
>_______________________________________________
>http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml
Dim I Nticoudis
Duckburg, Mouseton and Mickey's appeal
Message 131 -
2002-12-14 at 13:40:49
Recent discussion about the two cities and their importance is quite
interesting.To be honest I always thought of them as two sepparate cities
inhabited by two different sets of characters, although they may know each
other but aren't that close.
Duckburg ,or at least as seen in old Italian stories, is the city
practicaly dominated by Scrooge McDuck and John D.Rockerduck.I always loved
those old stories where we saw the two of them, compete for superiority.We
could see them taking business decisions than didn't only affect them and
their close associates but their workers and the society at large. droping
new ideas , introducing new products and trends, ideas that sometimes
fascinated the public and sometimes they just flopped.The two of them
running and organizing their financial empires often gave us quite
interesting stories where we could see them trying to predict their
opponent's next move, while planning their own next moves ,using industrial
espionage to get an advantage over each other, and often feeding false
information to each other's agents to trick them, constantly trying to
manipulate others to use in their plans.W, ile Barks,Rosa and others do a
good job portraying the adventurer that Scrooge is ,those are the stories
that explore him as a businessman.And Duckburg's society serves as a
nice,though unnamed , supporting cast to the main characters.
On the other hand in Mickey stories the influence of the duo of financial
emperors and their circle of close associates is rarely felt.Mickey's
casting as a detective set the theme in many stories.Mysteries and crime
stories.At their worst just boring predictable stories.At their best
exciting mysteries.A city where Phantom Blot's mere mention could cause fear
and Pete's criminal schemes could lead to a series cleverly commited and
organised crimes.The two cities felt different and the two sets of
characters could be left to their own machinations without tangling on each
other legs at every other storie.An occasional crossover could happen but
truly the two sets weren't that close to each other.They didn't know
everything about each others' activities.
Concerning Mickey's appeal I always thought him as an inferior character
to the Duckburg cast.For example he usualy didn't have a very interesting
motivation.Scrooge, Flintheart, Rockerduck , Magica(all favorite characters
of mine) are all extremely ambitious characters, setting high goals and
trying hard to achieve them.In Mickey's case he seems to be involved in
adventures that have no monetary or other personal gain for him and in many
cases shouldn't even involve him.I actualy enjoy stories that cast him as a
proffessional detective or reporter trying to earn some money, at least his
motives in those one are believable and that explains how can he financialy
supports himself.Sometimes ,like Sigvald pointed out, he seems to be in an
eternal vacation, not having a care in the world and even denying to receive
awards.I just can't stand those stories.
Secondly he is oftenly predictable.Scrooge, Donald and the other Ducks
oftenly have to take hard decisions in many matters, we can see them giving
serious thought in matters that affect their life.They deal with temptations
, desires, responsibilities in realy believable ways and they can be both
the "heroes" and the "villains" in their own stories according to their
decisions.Mickey is always going to do the "proper" thing.He has a sense of
morality that truly sounds out of this world.Threats to his health don't
seem to scare him, offers of money seem to have no appeal on him , his
actions straining his relationship with his closest associates don't realy
seem to make him give some more thought to them.Seriously how many times
have we seen him having fights with Minnie, mostly in old Italian stories,
because he seems to be always away in some adventure, neglecting her?I
actualy enjoy a couple of stories where she insists on going with him just
to proove that adventure is not too dangerous for her, as Mickey often seems
to believe.Even Scarpa's Goofy sometimes critoisizes his habit of just
walking on to danger with no concern and volunteering on his behalf without
even asking him.
And oftenly his adventures are based on accidental happenings rather than
planned action.Scrooge and his people go out looking for adventure.In some
stories at least we can see them plan ahead.In Mickey's case it seems just
to be his luck.Stock plot:How many times have you seen Mickey being on
vacation in some place and just happens to stumble in any major criminal
activitie in the area, without even looking for it?Including running into
Pete in any strange case?Pete is running a scheme in Arabia, India, the
African Jungle?Well Mickey just happens to go there leaving Pete wondering
how he does that?Well I wonder about that too.And his sollutions are also
based in luck.Sometimes he seems to resemble Gladstone Gander in his
outrageous luck.Whatever his enemies try against just doesn't work even if
he doesn't know he is threatened.Sigvald is probably right in saying that
the time traveling stories are among the best.At least he takes the decision
to time-travel instead of this just happening to him and they do have more
suspence than most stories.
And lastly I don't mind O'Hara asking for his help in some cases but not
in any case!In some movies he just seem to be doing all police work by
himself.Mouseton's superheroe or something.I actualy like recent Italian
stories featuring O'Hara balancing his life between his many cases in the
office and his relationship with his wife back home.It seems to develop the
character more.
Seriously some Mouseton characters seem to me more interesting than Mickey
himself.The Phantom Blot is a realy threatening ambitious ingenious man.Pete
at his best combines a tough attitude and criminal experience with some
good-hearted attempts to support himself and his Trudy, helping out criminal
friends, being a leader.Mortie's and Ferdie's stories dealing with their
social life can be quite interesting and sometimes seem more believable than
their uncle in their emotions.Goofy is good enough for surealistic stories
and he is at least more imaginitive,creative and fun-loving than his friend.
Mickey often seems to be the all too boring ,proper and predictable
character in a whole set of colorful characters.And to be honest I would
like to see him im stories that provide him with better motivation, more
realistic emotions and actions, a bussiness life , and some use of his years
of experience in adventure and crime-fighting.Seing him run around in shorts
in an attempt to de-age him isn't excactly a thing that makes him more
exciting in my eyes.
Just my thoughts in the subject rather than a more objective look.How do
other members see the two cities and the "Mouse that started it all" and
what stories would they like to read?
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
interesting.To be honest I always thought of them as two sepparate cities
inhabited by two different sets of characters, although they may know each
other but aren't that close.
Duckburg ,or at least as seen in old Italian stories, is the city
practicaly dominated by Scrooge McDuck and John D.Rockerduck.I always loved
those old stories where we saw the two of them, compete for superiority.We
could see them taking business decisions than didn't only affect them and
their close associates but their workers and the society at large. droping
new ideas , introducing new products and trends, ideas that sometimes
fascinated the public and sometimes they just flopped.The two of them
running and organizing their financial empires often gave us quite
interesting stories where we could see them trying to predict their
opponent's next move, while planning their own next moves ,using industrial
espionage to get an advantage over each other, and often feeding false
information to each other's agents to trick them, constantly trying to
manipulate others to use in their plans.W, ile Barks,Rosa and others do a
good job portraying the adventurer that Scrooge is ,those are the stories
that explore him as a businessman.And Duckburg's society serves as a
nice,though unnamed , supporting cast to the main characters.
On the other hand in Mickey stories the influence of the duo of financial
emperors and their circle of close associates is rarely felt.Mickey's
casting as a detective set the theme in many stories.Mysteries and crime
stories.At their worst just boring predictable stories.At their best
exciting mysteries.A city where Phantom Blot's mere mention could cause fear
and Pete's criminal schemes could lead to a series cleverly commited and
organised crimes.The two cities felt different and the two sets of
characters could be left to their own machinations without tangling on each
other legs at every other storie.An occasional crossover could happen but
truly the two sets weren't that close to each other.They didn't know
everything about each others' activities.
Concerning Mickey's appeal I always thought him as an inferior character
to the Duckburg cast.For example he usualy didn't have a very interesting
motivation.Scrooge, Flintheart, Rockerduck , Magica(all favorite characters
of mine) are all extremely ambitious characters, setting high goals and
trying hard to achieve them.In Mickey's case he seems to be involved in
adventures that have no monetary or other personal gain for him and in many
cases shouldn't even involve him.I actualy enjoy stories that cast him as a
proffessional detective or reporter trying to earn some money, at least his
motives in those one are believable and that explains how can he financialy
supports himself.Sometimes ,like Sigvald pointed out, he seems to be in an
eternal vacation, not having a care in the world and even denying to receive
awards.I just can't stand those stories.
Secondly he is oftenly predictable.Scrooge, Donald and the other Ducks
oftenly have to take hard decisions in many matters, we can see them giving
serious thought in matters that affect their life.They deal with temptations
, desires, responsibilities in realy believable ways and they can be both
the "heroes" and the "villains" in their own stories according to their
decisions.Mickey is always going to do the "proper" thing.He has a sense of
morality that truly sounds out of this world.Threats to his health don't
seem to scare him, offers of money seem to have no appeal on him , his
actions straining his relationship with his closest associates don't realy
seem to make him give some more thought to them.Seriously how many times
have we seen him having fights with Minnie, mostly in old Italian stories,
because he seems to be always away in some adventure, neglecting her?I
actualy enjoy a couple of stories where she insists on going with him just
to proove that adventure is not too dangerous for her, as Mickey often seems
to believe.Even Scarpa's Goofy sometimes critoisizes his habit of just
walking on to danger with no concern and volunteering on his behalf without
even asking him.
And oftenly his adventures are based on accidental happenings rather than
planned action.Scrooge and his people go out looking for adventure.In some
stories at least we can see them plan ahead.In Mickey's case it seems just
to be his luck.Stock plot:How many times have you seen Mickey being on
vacation in some place and just happens to stumble in any major criminal
activitie in the area, without even looking for it?Including running into
Pete in any strange case?Pete is running a scheme in Arabia, India, the
African Jungle?Well Mickey just happens to go there leaving Pete wondering
how he does that?Well I wonder about that too.And his sollutions are also
based in luck.Sometimes he seems to resemble Gladstone Gander in his
outrageous luck.Whatever his enemies try against just doesn't work even if
he doesn't know he is threatened.Sigvald is probably right in saying that
the time traveling stories are among the best.At least he takes the decision
to time-travel instead of this just happening to him and they do have more
suspence than most stories.
And lastly I don't mind O'Hara asking for his help in some cases but not
in any case!In some movies he just seem to be doing all police work by
himself.Mouseton's superheroe or something.I actualy like recent Italian
stories featuring O'Hara balancing his life between his many cases in the
office and his relationship with his wife back home.It seems to develop the
character more.
Seriously some Mouseton characters seem to me more interesting than Mickey
himself.The Phantom Blot is a realy threatening ambitious ingenious man.Pete
at his best combines a tough attitude and criminal experience with some
good-hearted attempts to support himself and his Trudy, helping out criminal
friends, being a leader.Mortie's and Ferdie's stories dealing with their
social life can be quite interesting and sometimes seem more believable than
their uncle in their emotions.Goofy is good enough for surealistic stories
and he is at least more imaginitive,creative and fun-loving than his friend.
Mickey often seems to be the all too boring ,proper and predictable
character in a whole set of colorful characters.And to be honest I would
like to see him im stories that provide him with better motivation, more
realistic emotions and actions, a bussiness life , and some use of his years
of experience in adventure and crime-fighting.Seing him run around in shorts
in an attempt to de-age him isn't excactly a thing that makes him more
exciting in my eyes.
Just my thoughts in the subject rather than a more objective look.How do
other members see the two cities and the "Mouse that started it all" and
what stories would they like to read?
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Patinhas
Duckburg, Mouseton and Mickey's appeal
Message 132 -
2002-12-14 at 14:52:19
Dim I Nticoudis wrote:
(a really insightful analysis of the motivations (or lack of them) of
the main mouse.)
>Seriously some Mouseton characters seem to me more interesting than
Mickey himself.(..).
>Goofy is good enough for surrealistic stories and he is at least more
imaginative, creative and fun-loving than his friend.
I agree. I also remember that Goofy as historically been used more as
"everyman" than Mickey (mostly on the cartoons), giving it a background
that Mickey lacks. And Indiana Pipps (although not strictly Goofy) also
present another side of him, whereas Mickey seems always one-dimensional.
> Mickey often seems to be the all too boring, proper and predictable
character in a whole set of colorful characters. And to be honest I
would like to see him im stories that provide him
>with better motivation, more realistic emotions and actions, a
bussiness life , and some use of his years of experience in adventure
and crime-fighting. Seeing him run around in shorts in
>an attempt to de-age him isn't exactly a thing that makes him more
exciting in my eyes.
One of the best series of stories with Mickey I read recently was the
"Frontier Chronicles" on Topolino, a series of Sci-Fi themed stories
series written by Pezzin (which I must regard as one of my favorite
Disney comics authors). In it, we not only see alternative lifes for the
mouse gang (Mickey, Minnie, Goofy but also Pete, Trudy, Clarabelle and
Horace), but in those lifes they have much more developed personal
relationships (see SPOILER at the end of the message for an example, if
you don?t mind spoiling some of the plot). Also, I'm particularly fond
of the Anderville (MMMM) series, for the same reasons ? believable and
not necessarily simple, plots and backgrounds for the characters
I realize now that in those stories (and in other stories of the mouse
that I like) Mouseton / Duckburg (in Portuguese they are the same,
Pat?polis=Duckburg) is almost nowhere to be seen. It may be because on
the standard "Mouseton" stories (like the ones that now come from
Egmont) the limits on the character usage are too rigid, and don't allow
the Mouse to attain its true potential. Even the attempts to use ?new?
characters on those stories seem less interesting than the Italian,
which rather than changing the characters that interact with Mickey,
change Mickey itself (creating ?new? characters, like Inspector Topot,
and the like).
SPOILER for the frontier chronicles:
In it, Goofy not only has a ?steady? girlfriend ? he almost marries her
? but also acts independently of Mickey, and allies with Pete betraying him.
(a really insightful analysis of the motivations (or lack of them) of
the main mouse.)
>Seriously some Mouseton characters seem to me more interesting than
Mickey himself.(..).
>Goofy is good enough for surrealistic stories and he is at least more
imaginative, creative and fun-loving than his friend.
I agree. I also remember that Goofy as historically been used more as
"everyman" than Mickey (mostly on the cartoons), giving it a background
that Mickey lacks. And Indiana Pipps (although not strictly Goofy) also
present another side of him, whereas Mickey seems always one-dimensional.
> Mickey often seems to be the all too boring, proper and predictable
character in a whole set of colorful characters. And to be honest I
would like to see him im stories that provide him
>with better motivation, more realistic emotions and actions, a
bussiness life , and some use of his years of experience in adventure
and crime-fighting. Seeing him run around in shorts in
>an attempt to de-age him isn't exactly a thing that makes him more
exciting in my eyes.
One of the best series of stories with Mickey I read recently was the
"Frontier Chronicles" on Topolino, a series of Sci-Fi themed stories
series written by Pezzin (which I must regard as one of my favorite
Disney comics authors). In it, we not only see alternative lifes for the
mouse gang (Mickey, Minnie, Goofy but also Pete, Trudy, Clarabelle and
Horace), but in those lifes they have much more developed personal
relationships (see SPOILER at the end of the message for an example, if
you don?t mind spoiling some of the plot). Also, I'm particularly fond
of the Anderville (MMMM) series, for the same reasons ? believable and
not necessarily simple, plots and backgrounds for the characters
I realize now that in those stories (and in other stories of the mouse
that I like) Mouseton / Duckburg (in Portuguese they are the same,
Pat?polis=Duckburg) is almost nowhere to be seen. It may be because on
the standard "Mouseton" stories (like the ones that now come from
Egmont) the limits on the character usage are too rigid, and don't allow
the Mouse to attain its true potential. Even the attempts to use ?new?
characters on those stories seem less interesting than the Italian,
which rather than changing the characters that interact with Mickey,
change Mickey itself (creating ?new? characters, like Inspector Topot,
and the like).
SPOILER for the frontier chronicles:
In it, Goofy not only has a ?steady? girlfriend ? he almost marries her
? but also acts independently of Mickey, and allies with Pete betraying him.
Eta Beta
Shrinking Men
Message 133 -
2002-12-14 at 20:35:56
SIMO
>However RS 76 (12/1985) is having one somehow-special story drawn
>by Giorgio Cavazzano, (S 72197 "The Mystery Of The Shrinking Men")
>Beautiful flying artwork - very much Romano Scarpa looking by the way.
Hardly surprising, since this IS Romano Scarpa... :-)
The wrong credit seems somewhat "stuck" in inducks, but I have
hope, one day, to get it straight... :-)
Cheers
Eta Beta
>However RS 76 (12/1985) is having one somehow-special story drawn
>by Giorgio Cavazzano, (S 72197 "The Mystery Of The Shrinking Men")
>Beautiful flying artwork - very much Romano Scarpa looking by the way.
Hardly surprising, since this IS Romano Scarpa... :-)
The wrong credit seems somewhat "stuck" in inducks, but I have
hope, one day, to get it straight... :-)
Cheers
Eta Beta
Sgarciab
Mouseton and Mickey's appeal
Message 134 -
2002-12-16 at 11:54:52
Dim I Nticoudis:
>>supports himself.Sometimes ,like Sigvald pointed out, he seems to be in
an eternal vacation, not having a care in the world and even denying to
receive awards.I just can't stand those stories.
I think that may not be the reason why Mickey should't be popular,
because it's the same scheme as Herg?'s Tintin: Almost never works, not a
knowkn job neither family at all. And anyway this character has become
wordly popular (All right: I won't compare Tintin's plots quality with
Mickey's shorts).
>>And oftenly his adventures are based on accidental happenings rather
than planned action.Scrooge and his people go out looking for adventure.In
some stories at least we can see them plan ahead.In Mickey's case it seems
just to be his luck [...] And lastly I don't mind O'Hara asking for his
help in some cases but not in any case!In some movies he just seem to be
doing all police work by himself.
And yet another comparation: this scheme has been taken literally from
Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes: Almost all his stories begin with Holmes
(Mickey) and Watson (Goofy) stading around his office and some client -or
even some police inspector like Lestrade (O'Hara)- rushes in to ask them
for help in some strange case. At the end, as you say, Holmes does all the
work and the police has just to come in at the end to catch the criminal.
But it happens that I like Tintin, and I like very much Holmes, and I
suppose that's the reason I like Mickey. I just wonder where did he get all
his policial-physical-chemical-psichological knowledge (maybe he used to
read Conan Doyle ;-)
Santiago.
>>supports himself.Sometimes ,like Sigvald pointed out, he seems to be in
an eternal vacation, not having a care in the world and even denying to
receive awards.I just can't stand those stories.
I think that may not be the reason why Mickey should't be popular,
because it's the same scheme as Herg?'s Tintin: Almost never works, not a
knowkn job neither family at all. And anyway this character has become
wordly popular (All right: I won't compare Tintin's plots quality with
Mickey's shorts).
>>And oftenly his adventures are based on accidental happenings rather
than planned action.Scrooge and his people go out looking for adventure.In
some stories at least we can see them plan ahead.In Mickey's case it seems
just to be his luck [...] And lastly I don't mind O'Hara asking for his
help in some cases but not in any case!In some movies he just seem to be
doing all police work by himself.
And yet another comparation: this scheme has been taken literally from
Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes: Almost all his stories begin with Holmes
(Mickey) and Watson (Goofy) stading around his office and some client -or
even some police inspector like Lestrade (O'Hara)- rushes in to ask them
for help in some strange case. At the end, as you say, Holmes does all the
work and the police has just to come in at the end to catch the criminal.
But it happens that I like Tintin, and I like very much Holmes, and I
suppose that's the reason I like Mickey. I just wonder where did he get all
his policial-physical-chemical-psichological knowledge (maybe he used to
read Conan Doyle ;-)
Santiago.
Deanmary
More US Disney comics news
Message 135 -
2002-12-17 at 00:53:48
Steve Geppi gives more information about the upcoming US Disney
comics at this link:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=1750
Overall, I think what he has to say is great news. I think the best
and most important piece of news is that they are going to aggressively
go after the youth market with "digest" sized comics in such stores as
Wal-Mart, Target, etc. The key to the long term health of Disney comics
is North America is to get the kids reading them. Will having such
digests in such mainstream stores work? Who knows, but I am hopeful.
The most important thing is that they will actually be given a chance.
Through the years we have heard that Disney comics for kids can't
make it in the US because kids aren't into comics anymore and that
Disney characters are considered corny and too juvenile. I think there
is a lot of truth in that, but there is one hole in that argument. That
is that Archie comics and comic digests are still being produced here.
No offense to anyone who likes Archie comics, but I can't see them as
being any "cooler" or "in" than Disney comics. I have always thought if
they could make it, why couldn't Disney digests? It looks like Disney
digests will finally be given a chance.
I agree that Carl Barks stories need to be reprinted. However I
think there is one place they should be reprinted the least in: the
prestige comics. My thinking on this is that very few children are
going to pay $6.95 or more for a standard comic. The people who are
most likely to buy the prestige format comics are dedicated Disney comic
fans. These fans are the very people most likely to already have copies
of the Barks stories. Where would the Barks reprints work? Two
places. One, the digests I have just mentioned. A digest that mixed in
reprints of Barks stories plus some European stories would show a new
generation of young readers Barks' great stories along with some newer
ones. These young readers are the readers least likely to have read
Barks' stories before.
The second place I think that would be great for Barks reprints
would be trade paperbacks (TPB). I have the whole Carl Barks library in
album format, but I will willingly and gladly buy the Carl Barks library
in trade paperback format. In the last few years TPBs have become more
and more popular both in comic books stores and regular book stores.
Plus, why stop with just Carl Barks? Wouldn't it be great to have TPB
libraries dedicated to the works of Rosa, Van Horn, etc.? The only
thing in the Geppi article that concerned me at all is the lack of
comment on TPBs. Perhaps Gary could tell us if digests have taken the
place of TPBs in Gemstone's plans, or if TPBs are still a big part of
this new wave of Disney comics in the US?
These are just the opinions of one Disney fan, namely me. I know
next to nothing about the comic book industry so if I have made some
huge mistakes in what is possible, preferable, etc., I apologize. I am
just very excited about the return of Disney comics in North America and
wanted to share my opinions. I think it would be great if other list
members share their views also. So hopefully we will soon have a lively
discourse on the mailing list about this subject.
Dean Rekich
comics at this link:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=1750
Overall, I think what he has to say is great news. I think the best
and most important piece of news is that they are going to aggressively
go after the youth market with "digest" sized comics in such stores as
Wal-Mart, Target, etc. The key to the long term health of Disney comics
is North America is to get the kids reading them. Will having such
digests in such mainstream stores work? Who knows, but I am hopeful.
The most important thing is that they will actually be given a chance.
Through the years we have heard that Disney comics for kids can't
make it in the US because kids aren't into comics anymore and that
Disney characters are considered corny and too juvenile. I think there
is a lot of truth in that, but there is one hole in that argument. That
is that Archie comics and comic digests are still being produced here.
No offense to anyone who likes Archie comics, but I can't see them as
being any "cooler" or "in" than Disney comics. I have always thought if
they could make it, why couldn't Disney digests? It looks like Disney
digests will finally be given a chance.
I agree that Carl Barks stories need to be reprinted. However I
think there is one place they should be reprinted the least in: the
prestige comics. My thinking on this is that very few children are
going to pay $6.95 or more for a standard comic. The people who are
most likely to buy the prestige format comics are dedicated Disney comic
fans. These fans are the very people most likely to already have copies
of the Barks stories. Where would the Barks reprints work? Two
places. One, the digests I have just mentioned. A digest that mixed in
reprints of Barks stories plus some European stories would show a new
generation of young readers Barks' great stories along with some newer
ones. These young readers are the readers least likely to have read
Barks' stories before.
The second place I think that would be great for Barks reprints
would be trade paperbacks (TPB). I have the whole Carl Barks library in
album format, but I will willingly and gladly buy the Carl Barks library
in trade paperback format. In the last few years TPBs have become more
and more popular both in comic books stores and regular book stores.
Plus, why stop with just Carl Barks? Wouldn't it be great to have TPB
libraries dedicated to the works of Rosa, Van Horn, etc.? The only
thing in the Geppi article that concerned me at all is the lack of
comment on TPBs. Perhaps Gary could tell us if digests have taken the
place of TPBs in Gemstone's plans, or if TPBs are still a big part of
this new wave of Disney comics in the US?
These are just the opinions of one Disney fan, namely me. I know
next to nothing about the comic book industry so if I have made some
huge mistakes in what is possible, preferable, etc., I apologize. I am
just very excited about the return of Disney comics in North America and
wanted to share my opinions. I think it would be great if other list
members share their views also. So hopefully we will soon have a lively
discourse on the mailing list about this subject.
Dean Rekich