Keskustelujen arkisto

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Author

Topic: Uh-oh...

(312 messages)
Mcduck_Enterprises
Quote from user: MustangRockstarIt's time to swallow hard and honestly ask ourselves if Disney comics are even feasible in North America at this point. In the last 30 years, we've seen five efforts to produce these comics, and all failed. We can blame marketing, we can blame stories, we can blame anything we want, but the sad fact is that there just isn't a big enough market for these comics in this states. There's no shows or video games to support them, and there's simply no way to compete with graphic novels or adult comics.

We keep getting made at the publishers, but let's face it, it's just not working. The audience for this material is small, and frankly, too many fans come off as miserable whiners anyway. So at best, an already small audience is cut even further.

I like the cut of your jib.......and I completely subscribe to this notion. While it may not be the end, I wouldn't be suprised....
Lars Jensen
Quote from user: MustangRockstarIt's time to swallow hard and honestly ask ourselves if Disney comics are even feasible in North America at this
point. In the last 30 years, we've seen five efforts to produce these comics, and all failed.

They didn't all fail. Please don't spread incorrect information.

Gladstone I (1985-1990) was a big success -- and only partly due to the DuckTales TV show. Its comic books often sold more than 100,000 copies, and there was a plethora of thriving titles. Gladstone I was so successful, in fact, that Disney revoked Gladstone's license so they themselves could publish those successful comics and bring those big profits in-house.

Disney Comics (1990-1993) made several strategic mistakes regarding choice of reprint material, what kind of material they themselves should produce, advertising, analyzing sales figures etc. And yes, they did end up having to cancel a lot of titles. But in the end they weren't really a failure, either. In their last days, Donald Duck Adventures, Uncle Scrooge, and Walt Disney's Comics and Stories still sold in OK numbers... just less than Gladstone I had done. So they gave the license back to Gladstone.

Gladstone II (1993-1998) was hit by several problems. From what I understand, the publisher (Bruce Hamilton) wanted to save money on producing the comics, perhaps because sales had gone down during the Disney Comics years. Unfortunately, Gladstone II's cost-saving measures made sales go down further. Hamilton chose to print old inventory material even though it was often very unpopular with readers (just look at the negative responses to "Goofy History" and "Mickey and the Sleuth" stories in the letter columns... and yet those stories kept being published), and lots of stories from the earlier Gladstone period were reprinted again and again. Some comics were printed with newsprint covers to keep the price low, but this was again a very unpopular move that lost more buyers than it kept on board. As a result, sales fell and fell...

Gemstone (2003-2008) made money. This has been mentioned in several places -- also on this message board. Their problems are still a little unclear (to me, at least), but from what I understand their earnings were being used to finance Steve Geppi's other enterprises. Problems with those other enterprises apparently eventually led to a cash crunch, which made Gemstone unable to afford continue publishing. But what they did publish, made money for them.

BOOM! (2009-?)... Well, we don't know. And until BOOM! announces something, it's all speculation and hearsay. Which means it is premature to write them off, in my opinion.

So no, publishing Disney comics is not doomed to failure. In fact, over the last thirty years, publishing Disney comics has traditionally made money for the publisher.

MustangRockstar, McDuck_Enterprises... I really don't understand your (and others') defeatist attitudes. Why do fans keep trying to come up with arguments for why companies should not publish Disney comics... or, at the very least, not publish them the successful way that Gladstone I or (to a lesser degree) Gemstone did?
Mcduck_Enterprises
Quote from user: MustangRockstarIt's time to swallow hard and honestly ask ourselves if Disney comics are even feasible in North America at this point. In the last 30 years, we've seen five efforts to produce these comics, and all failed. We can blame marketing, we can blame stories, we can blame anything we want, but the sad fact is that there just isn't a big enough market for these comics in this states. There's no shows or video games to support them, and there's simply no way to compete with graphic novels or adult comics.

We keep getting made at the publishers, but let's face it, it's just not working. The audience for this material is small, and frankly, too many fans come off as miserable whiners anyway. So at best, an already small audience is cut even further.

I still like this post despite what the Disney Comics accountant said.....
Ramapith
Mcduck_Enterprises, please don't be silly.

Let's move back to GeoX for a minute:
Quote from user: GeoXI don't for a minute buy this idea that Disney comics don't sell, or must be consigned to a niche. [...] They don't sell well when they're not promoted well. [...] Will somebody please explain to me why we--who are supposed to be FANS of this stuff--are determined to make this "Disney comics just DON'T SELL!" narrative into a self-fulfilling prophesy?
As a fan community, we've spent years asking ourselves why Disney comics supposedly don't sell.
One point not usually considered is that they've often been under-advertised.

GeoX and Lars are on the right track??even if I might disagree a little with a few of their statements, and I won't discuss past licensees in too much detail for the obvious reasons of privacy.

But I can refer back to a communication between myself and an exec at one Disney comics licenseholder years ago??long before Boom or anything recent. The exec disagreed with the idea that advertising was even necessary, because "everyone knows Disney characters."
I argued that sure, everyone knows Disney characters, but average people on the street might not know there are Disney *comics*.
"Sure they know," the exec would say. End of discussion.
Later, when this line of Disney comics began to face problems, this same exec lamented that "print media is dead" and that the comics must be unpopular.
Er... unpopular? Among a public who didn't even know the product was out there? That's not unpopularity, that's just unawareness due to insufficient promotion.

Looking at some (relatively) recent events at Gemstone: WALT DISNEY TREASURES Vol 1 was advertised a lot (in conjunction with the coinciding DVDs), and sold about 14,000 copies.
By contrast, TREASURES Vol 2??their all-Scrooge edition??wasn't advertised as much, and "only" sold about 8,000. Still profitable and good; just not *as* good.
(Even though Vol 2 had more Barks, Rosa, and especially Scrooge: all elements traditionally seen as being extra-popular.)

For years, I feel like Disney comics conventional wisdom has been built largely on pessimism ("our hobby isn't cool") and unfounded assumptions ("I'm just *sure* character/creator X won't appeal to a young/old/mass audience").

Please stop, fellas. It's really damaging.
Mcduck_Enterprises
It's silly to turn a discussion into a debate over something none of us are even sure about.
I never said that all of the companies previously 'failed' or that I wanted Disney Comics to cease publishing and was happy about it or anything remotely similar.....I merely stated that I agreed with Mustang's viewpoint. I mean, Uncle Scrooge sells 2-5G issues a month tops. Green Lantern (a 2nd tier DC nobody until Blackest Night,) sells 120G issues per month. That's a black and white way of looking at it, I know, but I live in the second largest and capital city in my state and I am the ONLY person at the largest LCS in town to even order Disney monthlies. (out of 4 LCS's total, in which none of the other shops even carry/stock Disneys)
As for marketing, good luck, unless there is a toy line, cartoon, movie or some other outside source to go along with it to actually move these books. It doesn't take a marketing genious to see that's been happening since the turn of the century. I hope this is all wrong logic and Disney Comics do continue. I have been reading them for 25 years.
I just get very tired of threads that turn from opinions and people agreeing or disagreeing over those opinions...... to an "I'm right and you're wrong" venue. That's damaging.
Roger North
Yes it is nerve wracking to hear that Disney Comics are going to be cancelled again. I hope another company publishes them whether it be Marvel or someone else.
Rodney
Quote from user: Mcduck_EnterprisesAs for marketing, good luck, unless there is a toy line, cartoon, movie or some other outside source to go along with it to actually move these books.
Explain how toys, cartoons and movies affect the high sales of the Archie books.
Mcduck_Enterprises
Quote from user: rodneyQuote from user: Mcduck_EnterprisesAs for marketing, good luck, unless there is a toy line, cartoon, movie or some other outside source to go along with it to actually move these books.
Explain how toys, cartoons and movies affect the high sales of the Archie books.

No clue on how that is.(Presuming they sell a ton at Walmart.) I've never met one person (or at least known to me,) that reads Archie. Ever...... I mean ever. Really.......
Rodney
Interesting sales figures on just how well kids' comics can sell without other media tie-ins.
http://comicsworthreading.com/2011/03/08/archie-sales-figures-for-2010/
Mcduck_Enterprises
That's a nice rendition showing Archie still maintaining its publication. Perhaps there are pockets of the country where it really moves. It's just not seen in my area...nor any area I have ever lived in where I was an active member of the comic book community.
I'm considerably positive in seeing is believing with Disney Comics. If someone can make them work, we will buy them. If not, dissecting theories is a futile endeavor for the time being.
Gerd Syllwasschy
Quote from user: rodneyInteresting sales figures on just how well kids' comics can sell without other media tie-ins.

http://comicsworthreading.com/2011/03/08/archie-sales-figures-for-2010/

Archie is a newsstand title, isn't it? I don't think you can compare that to the direct-market distribution of Boom's Disney titles. I'd expect Boom could sell ten times more copies than they do now if they went to the newsstands. The question is, of course, if they would make more money that way.
Rodney
Boom's Disney books were sold on newsstands. I've seen them in supermarkets and bookstores. I would like to see some full numbers for the Boom titles.
Mcduck_Enterprises
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20090.html
Looks like Scrooge sold 3,515 issues with Archie doing 1G+ more last month. Donald even worse and WDC&S not even on the list for sales of the top 300 books in April.
Rodney
Those are only comic shop sales. They do not take into account newsstand sales, which would certainly make the numbers of certain books jump.
Mcduck_Enterprises
Good point. I've never seen any Boom titles on newstands in Ohio. I see the Archie Digests in Walmart and maybe the drug stores and such, but haven't seen Disney Comics in newstands since Disney themselves were publishing them in the early 1990's...but thats just here, might be different elsewhere.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21