Keskustelujen arkisto

Kriton:

> HARRY:
>
> > I've considered learning the basics of Italian just to read the
> > untranslated topolino-stories.

That's not me you're quoting.

I do know the basics of Italian, because I had 6 years of Latin, and because
I read several Italian Disney comics.
Still, my Italian is not good enough to read an article *about* comics.
Reading a comic is much easier, since the pictures already show half of the
story.

> The hardest part is trying to locate
> Italian stories in the INDUCKS.

For that reason, we are also trying to add English descriptions to every
story in INDUCKS (but that process takes a lot of time).
In the example you give, you would have found the story (I AT 80-A) when
searching for:

il piffero ladrincantatore
trappola dei Bassotti
Die Zauberpfeife
Tryllefl?jten
Taikahuilu
den magiska tutiluren

--Harry.

There is a lot of debate going on about where people think Scrooge lives.
As we all know he lives in the USA as his creator made him, but if the
Europeans want to think he is from some where else I think that is fine.
But they must learn to accept that the Scrooge they like is not the same one
that Carl Barks created.

Kenneth

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Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From: "Fluks, H.W." <H.W.Fluks at kpn.com>
>>>I think, with the way the Disney world currently works, you'll have to
accept that YOUR stories are not YOUR stories anymore, the moment you
deliver them to the publisher.

Ah, but yes they are my stories and they will be forever, regardless of how
others might have the ability to change them. There's a vast difference
between legal rights and moral rights. You need to read some Ayn Rand. As a
lifelong Rand fan, it might puzzle some people how I could ever work on
Disney comics! Howard Roarke blew up a building that was not built
according to his exact architectural plans. Why would I not seek to emulate
my hero and blow up a European publisher? Because the building in the Rand
novel was the physical realization of Roarke's vision... it was the
physical reality. For me, my original artwork is the physical reality of my
work, and the few publishers who might change it are only mucking about
with imitations of my work. But my original work remains mine and is never
changed, not on the paper and not in my mind.

From: Ari Seppi <mani at iki.fi>
>>>Another thing is that all Disney comics belong to the
group of Disney comics. Even if a story said that Scrooge
lives in Europe or that Norway is a part of Europe, it
still is a Disney comics story. Can we say that in
Disney comics X is the only truth, when there are stories
that imply Y being a correct answer as well?

As you note from everything I've written on this subject, I only say that
in *my* stories X is the only truth because I say it is. If there is Y in
some other story, that's fine. And there are publishers who will change X
to Y in my story when they use it, but that does not make them right only
because they have the ability to do so. And I never agreed to allow them to
have that ability, but I realize I have no power to prevent it.

This is an interesting discussion as it wanders off into philosophies here
and there, but keep in mind that the only thing I originally said was that
if anyone ever sees a Money Bin with a Euro sign on it on one of my
stories, that they should know it was not *my* idea.

From: Martin S. Thoresen"
>>>In that case, I really don't understand why the coins are yellow in
Norwegian
comics, as our currency is grey-ish.

I assume it's because the first colorists in Norway were told that this was
a very, very rich man and this was his vault of coins, but since the
colorists did not read the stories or know the background of the character,
they assumed the coins are all solid gold. They did not know that this was
a comically frugal character who hoarded every coin he ever made, and
valued even common bit of "pocket change", which is the whole idea of the
Money Bin.

>>>So, I decided to check in one of my US comics (U$ 277, The Great
Steamboat
Race),
and on the second page Scrooge opens up his bin, and pours out a bag of
yellow coins.

And that's because U$ #277 came out during the brief period when these
comics were being produced in America by people who were unfamiliar with
the characters and the stories and had no idea what they were doing... the
Disney corporation, itself. Check the Gladstone reprints of that story, and
the original version in U$ #11, and the coins are, of course, silver.

>>>>I can also never remember to have seen a picture of the money bin with
any
other colour (than gold)

Then you are not seeing the original American comics. The original version
of Barks' Money Bin always showed the coins to appear to be pocket change,
mostly silver with a percentage of copper or perhaps old gold coins. Barks
actually never made references to *any* foreign (non-America) currency in
the Bin... that's an idea that seems logical in my view of the way it was
filled, but Barks surely never analyzed it in that respect. I've never had
a reason to try to figure out just what percentage of the lower levels
might be still in the same currency as the country where $crooge earned it
in his travels. If I had to do so, I would find some reason why he would
have exchanged most of it into American coins and bills, simply because I
(arrogantly?!) want most of the money in the Bin to be American, as was the
original concept.

From: Morten Lied Johansen <mortenlj at student.matnat.uio.no>
>And when a miniscule fraction of those
> stories were translated by Gladstone, the European "inaccuracies" were
> corrected. These "European traditions" were obliterated as they should
have
> been for our eyes, and the original versions replaced.
>>>>Uhm... so... Gladstone changed the european stories to make them fit
with current traditions, to make them more easily accepted by american
readers.
How is this different than european publishers changing american stories
to make them with fit current traditions, to make them more easily
accepted by european readers?

You're missing the entire point -- the story details were not changed "to
fit current traditions", the details were changed back into the original
versions of the facts, the original traditions. You'll have a hard time
finding a situation here to match what you are aiming at since all of these
stories are based on an American original "masterplan".

>>>PS. I love your stories Don, and frankly I don't care where Scrooge
lives, as long as it fits the story. :)

And to fit my story, often in one of my stories $crooge will need to live
where I say he does, on the west coast of the USA. And I believe that those
stories of mine are translated accurately, otherwise the editors will be
making more trouble than they think they are solving as otherwise they will
cause the story to have gaps in logic or sense.

From: James Campbell
>>>>$crooge can't convert his European monies into the euros because he
died
many years ago. $crooge stories can't be written as the present day because
he don't exist anymore so he stays in the 1950's period.

That's only true in my stories and apparently in your preference. But it's
not true in any other stories. Now yours is an attitude that might fairly
be considered by other Duckfans as "arrogant" ... (no offense, but just to
create an example for the sake of study).

From: Tommi Perkola <matope at uta.fi>
> Or are you just explaining why you don't like the way I do it (which is
fine)?
>>>>Yes.

Ah. Fair enough then. But then the question remains: if you are not trying
to tell me that you think I should change the way I view it, then why do
you say I'm arrogant? You're complaining about something that you don't
want me to change? Then why bring it up? I still am missing your point.

> You can't expect Don to learn an overseas language just to read some
comic
> books...
>>>>I've considered learning the basics of Italian just to read the
untranslated topolino-stories. Well, maybe Don has a life, unlike me.

Hahaha! No, I don't!!! My life seems to have become answering e-mail! I
used to have spare time, but now I answer e-mail 2 or 3 hours per day. I
wish I could afford to hire a secretary to handle this stuff, but then, I
wouldn't let him/her do it because I must personally deal with comics fans.
My problem is that I come into this from being a longtime comics/Barks fan,
not merely as someone seeking a job as a cartoonist. I am unable to ignore
a single piece of e-mail (or snail-mail) from a comics fan since they are
all-important and I will never get used to the fact that they are writing
to *me*, I will never feel less than greatly honored... so they must each
and every one receive a personal and non-form reply.
And that's what I must get back to right now! Carry on....

Greetings, all!

Regarding Carl Barks' comments on whether or not he wanted other writers and
artists to keep consistant with his own depiction of the Ducks' universe:

He admitted that he often did not keep consistant with his OWN previous story
contents, and had never intended to (as we have mentioned on DCML many times).
Carl was AMAZED that many the new generation of artists attempted to do so.
When he found out that I slavishly tried to keep perfectly consistant with his
canon in my own stories, he told me that he did not want his own stories to
restrict the potential scope of others. He knew there were always other
artists doing Duck stories. And, although he didn't actively seek to read their
stories; if, in a rare situation, he managed to see some of their work and get
a chuckle, he appreciated it. like any fan of good comedy, he wanted the widest
forum possible for exposure of the wares of talented people.

Regarding the learning of foreign languages by others relating to comics: I
seem to remember coming across a Scotsman who had never had any contact with
Holland in any way until he heard in the late 1970s, that "Disney Comics are
alive and well there!"
He had read a few Barks stories in his youth in the early 1950s. He found the
address of a Dutch second hand comic dealer, and purchased some comics with
Jippes/Milton/Verhagen stories included. He translated them as best he could
using a Dutch/English dictionary. But, as that method didn't allow him to
understand the comedic nuances, he made an INTENSE study of the Dutch language
over the next several years. I have seen this myself in the 1960s and 1970s in
Germany, when MOST of the Germans I met could read NO English, or do it VERY
poorly, based on their sketchy learning from school. Many of them, who loved
the Erika Fuchs translations, wondered what the original language wording was.
They worked hard to improve their English to read Barks' versions.

Side note: In Proper English when contrasting two items, "different FROM" is
the correct usage. "different THAN" is incorrect. Most USA inhabitants these
days seem to use the incorrect version, but, as yet it has not been officially
adopted as correct (neither has the dropping of word usage from 25,000 to
approximately 4,000).

Rob
Klein

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I always just thought it was gold coins, which Scrooge certainly would have
saved in the money bin. (U.S. had gold coins throughout the 19th century -
the $20 gold piece was what you sometimes saw the cowboys flipping in the
bar in old movies.) Now a $20 gold piece is worth much more to collectors
than just the value of the gold.

As far as reading comics in other languages, I'd be happy to read them in
French, German, or Italian (sorry, I can't read any Scandinavian languages
or Dutch and am just beginning with Spanish) -- IF I could buy them here.
It's a bit much to go to Europe every month just to buy comics -- even
getting them used in Europe makes that a pretty expensive hobby....

Hi

Martin S. Thoresen mentioned the gold money in the european tradtion.
It has baffled me a lot too, in the last years. -
The only gold-colored (not solid gold, not even gold, but some other metal
that is yellow) I've seen are from Ireland,
Greece and Denmark. I'm not sure how many Ireland and Greece have but our
coins are like this:
2 gold-colored (the 10 and 20-pieces of kroner) 3 silver-colored (1,2 and
5 of kroner) and bronze/cobber (25 and 50 ears(small centish coins))

So when they printed a story as the Coin, showing the Quarter, (they made
it a 2-kr) it baffled me to see it as yellow. - as our 2kr is
silkver-colored
But all this is caused by this confusing tradition - it must origiante in
the fact that Scrooge is rich, and then why wouldn't all his coins by
solid gold...
I know they aren't.

Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist

Harry wrote:

>I have the opposite experience: *many* Disney comics
>editors are also Disney comics freaks!
>(Only few have time to follow the DCML discussions.)

That's because *you* only get in touch with the ones
interested in Disney Comics.

Favio

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