Keskustelujen arkisto

Hi, Don!

You're right!

> the Italians apparently stumbled on that
> ancient & obscure use of Grandma Duck's name in the old WDC&S just as I
> did, and had already been using the name...

Yes. It depends from the reprint of that old Riley Thom(p)son's story, from
WDC&S # 121 (Oct. 1950 - Incidentally, Elviry was born in October, like the
story plans) into a book for collectors which come out in the early 90'es. I
took that old panel and put in into a book ("Walt Disney presenta Paperina e
le altre"), where an full chapter was devoted to Grandma and I esplained all
her story.

Later, that panel was reprinted into other newsstands' books and the name of
Elviry become "common" among the italian story men.
As we just wrote previously, in this list, in another old story (by Carl
Fallberg and Frank Mc Savage: "Grandma Duck in Hollywood"), Grandma's name
was Abigail... But since it was referred to the old Grandma's carreer on
stage... it could even be and art nickname.

> It's in the blood! They know more about American comics books and newspaper
> strips than any American I've ever met, and I've been hangin' around with
> the foremost American funnybook collectors since the late 60's!

Oh, thank you, Don! :-)

Luca

Marco wrote:
> Fossati's index of Barks stories says that a couple of years earlier, when
the money bin hadn't even been built (Don forgive this...), in the story W
WDC 126-02 the amount of $crooge's money was already measured in cubic
acres. There is no reference in the Italian translation, so I'd like someone
who owns the story to check for me (maybe Fossati was wrong).

Fossati was right: in panel 2 of the third page of W WDC 126-02, Scrooge
says "But if they knew I have three cubic acres of money in there, they'd go
loony!"

Ciao,
Armando

Tommi Perkola wrote:
Well, right now it would be ridiculous to take all the comics you've drawn back, and mold them to the euroducks tradition. Of course these stories are here to stay

and Soren wrote:

The only thing that really bothers me is when someone claims that they are closer to the "true fact", the so-called "original" and stick to that, not for sake of making good Disney comics but for the sake of
being original only. I don't know who invented the wheel, but if those who did suddenly claimed that this was the best wheel ever made, and that everybody in ze world should follow that example, then...well, the American automobile industry would certainly look different then...

This touches on something I've been meaning to ask for some time now. Given all of the international inconsistencies not to mention the differences in views among various creators, how would you as a Disney comics fan or creator feel if the Walt Disney Company, in an attempt to create a more cohesive and "logical" universe (or as logical as a universe can be when it's peopled with talking ducks, dogs, geese, etc.), came up with guidelines that standardized some (or all!) of the very things that have been discussed and required the licensees to follow them? What if they officially established Duckburg's location? What if they defined the color, nature and origin of the money in Scrooge's bin? What if they established an official historical chronology? What if this was all based on the works of Carl Barks and, by extension, Don Rosa? What if they began an extensive effort to retell all previously published stories, revising them so that they adhere to this new Disney Comics Bible? Do you think these "restrictions" would limit the creators' abilities to tell good stories? Do you think this would result in a backlash from some fans who like things as they are in their respective countries? Do you think the average Disney comics reader would notice any difference and, if they did, would they care? I realize this is a pretty broad question, but what are your opinions? I'm really curious about this.

Quack,

Christopher Burton

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From: Kriton Kyrimis <kyrimis at cti.gr>

> The problem is that the contents of that page are not Greek to a Greek,
> and they more or less need to be re-done from scratch by a Greek speaker.

So, report typos to me. I'm sure there are hundreds.

> My favorite was the translation of the "x" in "Carl Barks 10x10" to a
> ksi! In a "correct" translation, the "x" would not even be converted to
> a chi (not a ksi!), as, in most fonts, lower case chi does not resemble
> a multiplication sign as much as a lower case roman x does.

That's a convertion problem, Im sure we can keep that title in "English",
"x" included. In story titles we can (for example in those cases in which
the title is still in English)... Harry, what about headers?

> > But we don't care about accents,
>
> Ah, but Greeks do, and this was one of my problems with the text in the
> web page!

Actually we were told that Greeks *don't* care either, that accents are
old-fashioned, that's why we even started, because there was a short an easy
to use covertion table. I had looked at real convertion tables too at the
begininng, but it was clear that they couldn't be used, being phonetic and
with no 1-to-1 matching.

Dealing with a more complex transitteration table would increase the work by
at least an order of magnitude, we probably wouldn't even have an index in
that case, no time.

--
Sprea

SPREA:

Let me begin by stating that I have a nasty feeling that the more I
elaborate on this, the more offensive I get against what, after all, was
a well-intentioned effort, so I apologize if I seem to be a little harsh.

With this in mind, let me elaborate a bit further: ;-)

> So, report typos to me. I'm sure there are hundreds.

Like I said, it's more a matter of requiring an almost total re-write.
Pointing out individual typos may well prove to be more work than a
re-write. :( Perhaps some young enthusiastic Greek list member might
want to volunteer for the latter.

> That's a convertion problem, Im sure we can keep that title in "English",
> "x" included.

The problem with that particular title (which I believe should be
translated, after all, although I am unable to check, as I don't have
that album), is that it was apparently transcribed mechanically (by a
program?), without any understanding of what was being translated!
It would be like reading "10x10" as "ten ex ten" in English!

> Actually we were told that Greeks *don't* care either, that accents are
> old-fashioned,

There are three kinds of Greeks:

1. Those who'd much rather they spoke English, if only their English
wasn't even worse than their Greek. Often recognized by being unable
to utter a single phrase without using at least one English word,
and by the erroneous Anglicization of their names from, say Dimitris
to Jim, or Vasilis to Bill. I don't think there are any such people
on this list, and you should obviously ignore any input on the Greek
language that you get from such people if you happen to encounter them.

2. Those who use the current simplified spelling of modern Greek,
as taught in Greek schools since the eighties, which has one accent
mark and no aspiration marks. These are the majority of modern
Greeks. They might omit the occasional accent mark out of haste or
laziness, but if asked to write properly, they'll definitely use
accents. Often recognized by a desire to improve their Greek.

3. Certain old fogies, like myself, who believe that the simplification
of modern Greek grammar in the 80s was too drastic and that it
proved to be a tragic mistake. Such people use two or three accent
marks and the two abolished aspiration marks. Use your judgment when
talking to such people. Their views may either be well-informed, or
simply the result of prejudice. Often recognized by their tendency
to pontificate. ;-)

My guess is that you either spoke to someone from group #1, or, more
likely, you misunderstood the extent of the simplifications that group
#2 uses.

> Dealing with a more complex transitteration table would increase the work by
> at least an order of magnitude, we probably wouldn't even have an index in
> that case, no time.

It is my sense that as long as things are set up correctly (which may or
may not require a bit of extra work to do so), a Greek-speaking indexer
(Greek or otherwise) would not require any extra time to index stories in
correctly typed Greek. In fact, since support for Greek characters appears
to be already in place, it would take more time for this hypothetical
indexer to enter data without accents, than with accents; typing the
accents may be extra work, but the attention he would have to pay,
to make sure that he doesn't type them instinctively, is even more costly.

In any case, I don't know how useful a Greek index in its present
form would be to a non-Greek. Speaking for myself as a Greek, however,
I don't think I could use it.

Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"One always has choices. Whether one chooses to see them or not is,
in itself, its own choice."
-----