Keskustelujen arkisto

VIC:

For what it's worth, I'll have to disagree with the sentiment.

I rarely buy comic books just to read a particular story, while I regularly
buy comic books to read a particular *kind* of story, namely the Disney
comics that all (most?) of us in this list like to read. While I do have a
preference to Duck and, to a lesser extent, Mouse stories, I don't think I
would like an exclusive diet of such stories, as the role of the other stories
is not limited to serving as page fillers or to satisfying younger readers.
Consider, e.g., the old WDC&S: you'd start with a bang with a Barks story,
then you would catch your breath by reading a Lil' Bad Wolf, Chip & Dale or
other lighter story, while still remaining in a Disney atmosphere, then plunge
into adventure with a Murry story. Putting the two main stories together,
without a lighter story or two in between, would have somehow made them less
enjoyable. Something similar happens with the Greek "Mickey Mouse" magazine:
you get two lead stories, one of which is usually by one of the Italian
masters, folowed by a bunch of lighter stories. I usually read the magazine
backwards, last story first, getting into the Disney mood with the lighter
story, then sinking my teeth into the lead stories. "Mickey Mouse" magazine
might have beeen cheaper if it had had half the page count, publishing only
the lead stories, but it would have somehow not been as good. As long as the
main stories are good, I *want* those lighter stories to be there!

Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"I am not interested in the beliefs of primitives--only in what they *taste*
like!"
-----

Well, it's about time someone said it. What on earth is the point of
publishing Disney Comics NOT consisting only of Rosa and Barks stories?
Those darn publishers should have understood by now that what we, the
readers, want, is Don Rosa and Carl Barks.

Yes, perhaps a few people still want childish comics like Disney Babies and
Mickey Mouse, but who cares about them? We're the majority. Ask anyone, and
they can tell you that Don Rosa is a god amongst comics creators. And as all
his stuff is based on Carl Barks, Barks can't be that bad either. Anyhow,
one should always listen to the majority when making comics. Don Rosa
himself wrote a very good example on this on DCML once:
http://stp.ling.uu.se/pipermail/dcml/2000-February/012198.html

KEEP MY DISNEY COMIC CLEAR OF CHILDISH WOLVES. If Gemstone absolutely wants
to print these silly childish characters, they should do it in an own wolf
comic book. I'm 100% sure there's market for that in the USA.

And when it comes to Duck comics: If it's not by Carl Barks or Don Rosa,
don't print it. It's not worth reading anyway, and it's only those boring
pages we have to browse to finally come to the Don Rosa comic (and we have
to buy ALL issues just in case they HIDE Don Rosa comics inbetween them -
would you believe that the Scandinavian weeklies, when printing a two-pager
Don Rosa did the artwork to, DON'T announce that on the cover?). Nah, if
it's not Don Rosa (or that guy Barks), we don't want it. So why do they make
those comics at all? Gemstone and Disney always complain they have so little
money. Well, can't they just fire all those unknown amateurs such as William
van Horn, Lars Jensen, all those crazy Italians... We don't want them
anyway, so just fire them and use the entire magazine for Don Rosa and Carl
Barks! That way Disney could save a lot of money, and even get more readers
as many probably today want to buy the comic, but don't do it because
there's so many childish wolf stories in them. And if Disney saves money and
gets more readers, it should be possible to get the books for a decent
price, too!

Hopefully, Don Rosa will live for another 30-40 years. By then he should be
able to produce quite a lot of stories, so when he leaves this world there
will be plenty of stories to reprint. In other words, Disney comics in USA
could live on for centuries, and they would all be GOOD stories, Don Rosa
and Carl Barks.

And, Gemstone and all other publishers: If some engineer from Kentucky or
something EVER should come to you and say "I'm destined to make Disney
Comics" - don't listen to him. Don't even give him a chance. He can't be as
good as Don Rosa anyway. ALL IN FAVOUR THAT DISNEY COMICS SHOULD BE ROSA
(eventually a little Barks) ONLY!

We, the target group of Gemstone's comics (including Fabio and myself), want
Don Rosa and Carl Barks. And nothing but that.

______________________
Olaf the Blue :-)

"It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's good advice that you just didn't take
And who would have thought it figures"

KRITON wrote:

>Consider, e.g., the old WDC&S: you'd start with a bang with a Barks story,
>then you would catch your breath by reading a Lil' Bad Wolf, Chip & Dale
>or other lighter story, while still remaining in a Disney atmosphere, then
>plunge into adventure with a Murry story.

And then OLAF wrote (sarchastically):

>Can't they just fire all those unknown amateurs such as William van Horn,
>Lars Jensen, all those crazy Italians... and use the entire magazine for
>Don Rosa and Carl Barks! ... And, Gemstone and all other publishers: If
>some engineer from Kentucky or
>something EVER should come to you and say "I'm destined to make Disney
>Comics" - don't listen to him. Don't even give him a chance. He can't be
>as good as Don Rosa anyway.

Thank you, both of you. I was going to write on the subject, but you said
it better. Three cheers for variety!

Nils from Norway

Lars Jensen:
> You know, Rich, when you write something like this it comes across
> as a) you want to see these stories/subseries in the Gemstone books
> and b) the stories and subseries are all good.

> Well, they're not all good. Some of this material (I won't say which)
> is horribly bad. Ill-conceived from the beginning, and printing it in
> the US will be a *big* mistake in my opinion.
> Have you actually read all these subseries (and like what you've seen),
> or are you mentioning them, merely because you have heard of them?

Let me see if I can answer your request clear enough to put forth my
thoughts on the idea of what I like about Disney Comics and what I think
might be "good" for Disney comics in general.

As for your question about a) whether or not I want to see these stories/
subseries in Gemstone books?

Generally, "Yes" I do. But I need to clarify that some.

and b) do I think these stories/subseries are all good.

I don't know about all, but I do know that everything is subject to personal
taste or preferences.

And whether or not I've actually read all these stories and liked what I've
seen or just mentioning them because I have merely heard of them?

It's a mixture of both.

Now let me explain, and please bear with me...

First, I have a fair-sized collection of foreign Disney comics ranging from
China, Brazil, Mexico, Denmark, Germany, France and especially Italy!

I have always been a fan of Disney in ALL it's flavors, not just "Duck" or
"Mouse", but a mixture of Gremlins, Scamp, Morty & Ferdie, Li'l Wolf, etc.,
though I should add, if it wasn't already understood, I have a strong
preference for Mouse stories (I'm a BIG Gottfredson & Scarpa "Mouse" fan).
This doens't mean I dislike Duck stories, though.

That said, my favorite Disney title in the US has always been WDC&S, which
I have issues going ALL the way back to 1944 and I'm extremely proud of
them. As such, I have been exposed to the many flavors of Disney comics
and come to appreciate them all -- definitely some more than others, but
I can't really say I've hated any of them. Some, I agree were dumb, but,
I don't think of Disney comics the same way I think of, say, THE X-MEN or
GREEN LANTERN. While those titles offer escapism, they generally appeal
to the "adult" side of me. Disney appeals to my younger self. I loved
the dark and gritty Disney "Gargoyles" series (published by Marvel), but
I also loved the light-hearted "Rescue Rangers" stuff.

Now, in the case of the items I mentioned in my previous "Gemstone Mix?"
post, here's what I know or don't know about them:

> Moby Duck "Bay Chronicles,"

I've "heard" only good reports here on this mailing list about them, and
the art that was shared with me looked very good as well. Admittedly, the
US "Moby Duck" stories, I felt, were typically written below potentiality,
and I always envisioned a much bigger tapestry of adventure possibility
for Moby. It would appear to me that someone has finally taken that to
task and I would certainly love to see how well they performed.

> the Clarabelle Reporter stories,

Again, I have only heard "good" reports on this list about this series.
I have always felt that Clarabelle and Horace were way under-used and
while I know this series is set outside of normal Mouse stories, I am
very curious to see more of it... yes I have one story from this series.
It is in the Italian "Minni & Company" comic, and from what I could
read and see, it seemed good.

> April, May & June stories,

Well, mostly my exposure with these are from the old US DD and D+D comics
and, admittedly, they were not among my favorites. However, I have seen
some of the art from the newer Katrien comics and wish to see how these
characters have evolved.

> and some of the even more obscure or never reprinted (in the
> USA) Panchito, Ellsworth and Joe Carioca newspaper strips?

These are probably among the highest priorities on my "must see" list.
Well, "Ellsworth" less so, only because I have a good stash of JOURNAL
DE MICKEY French comics which have reprinted a good number of Ellsworth
one and two-pagers. However, I have heard a lot about the old Panchito
and old Jose Carioca newspaper comicstrips, and occassionally even saw
them for auction on E-Bay. I am jealous that these have been reprinted
in Europe, especially Italy, but never here in the US. I would LOVE to
see these (uncensored) reprints in the US... even if they have to be
done in a "special" edition format.

> Maybe even some of the French "Li'l Bad Wolf" with Meana & Marie Loupe,

In this case, I haven't heard a lot about these, and I get the sense
that they are probably written for the younger readers. That's O.K. by
me as I really think Gemstone needs to appeal to younger readers also.

> "Young" Donny Duck, Morty & Ferdie or Disney Babies stories?

These are the same as the Li'l Wolf stories above in that they probably
appeal primarily to the younger readers. I HAVE read and seen quite a
few of these and I actually do LIKE them. I even got ahold of a couple
of the Morty & Ferdie stories featuring the Riverside Rovers just before
leaving China, and I thought they were really well presented. It's nice
to see Mrs. Feildmouse in a recurring role, as well as seeing Gilbert out
of his silly mortarboard and bowtie. The Donny Duck stories feature
Donald in a time of his life we know very little about, namely his growing
years on Grandma Duck's farm. I have certainly enjoyed what I've seen
of these stories. And, I realize I am probably in a class of "one" when
I say, yes I like Disney Babies. The stories are simple and playful, but
I am really fond of Claude Marin's portrayal of the characters. I have
a number of them in French, including a collection in hardback thanks to
a wonderful French Disney fan.

> Will the HDL stories simply be reprints or old US Woodchuck stories
> or can we expect some of those which ran in the Italian "Giovani
> Marmotte" series?

Here, again, I have a fair collection of Giovanni Marmotti, and I love
them! They are MUCH better than the old US JW stories and they present
a much more appealing use of the Junior Chickadees, too. I also like
Clarissa! :-)

As for a clearer reason or, perhaps, the real underlying reason for my
original inquiry to Gary/Gemstone about their future "mix" (which is still
not really answered), is because of my witness/personal experience with
Marvel comics.

As well as collecting Disney comics most of my life, I've also been a big
collector of Marvel, DC and other comics. I have a large "super-hero"
comic collection, and have recently gone through a BIG change in my desire
to continue with most of those companies' offerings. Marvel, in particular,
has left a very sour taste in my mouth. I have dropped nearly EVERY title
and have a strong disdain for that company's management. Their new management
is, to me, likened to the RJ Reynolds of comics. They seem to feel that
the older/longtime collectors of Marvel comics are not worth their effort
and have decided to aim squarely at the younger, hipper new generation of
collectors. They have shaken up their titles and the longstanding character
continuity and decided to throw the bulk of it away, and have even told the
older fans that they believe they are not a reliable source of continued
revenue (being that we are old and dying). They feel they must attract and
sustain "younger" collectors. This has pissed me off and I have watched over
the past couple years as they have eroded away so much of what I used to
love about Marvel's characters. I have dropped all but two titles from
Marvel. And given their continued erosion, I may soon drop those as well.

Now, if I were to compare this with Gemstone's approach, which I admittedly
know very little of, since I can only speculate from this list and from
their "Scoop" site, they "seem" to be very willing to appeal to the older/
longterm collectors, like me, and especially the "Duck fans" of Barks and
Rosa. This is "good." Therefore, it is my concern that they ALSO appeal
to younger and new fans, too. I wouldn't want Gemstone to take the same
approach Marvel is, but maybe a happy balance of "young" or "contemporary"
appeal with that of "old" or "nostaligia" appeal. In order for Gemstone
to thrive, they need appeal to more than just us "older/longterm" collectors,
but to cultivate younger and more contemporary readers as well.

I hope Gemstone is up to the task despite the nay-sayers on this list.

Just my thoughts on the topic.

-Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)

---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://cwnet.com/

Hi, I keep with that cold or flu or whatever his name in English, so first
my apologies for my language. I promise don't say "fucking" again...

Anyway, I remember that Gemstone first series in 1993 (?) with the Don Rosa
debut... ?Wasn't the digest format destined to certain stuff and the comic
book for other, like Rosa and Barks and Van Horn? Maybe if I see that the
comics I want read is in Uncle Scrooge I'll buy Uncle Scrooge.

I read a lot of Disney comics from 5 years to now. And I can remember very
few stories that give so pleasures like the Carl Barks ones, and the Don
Rosa's now. I never have too fun reading Lil' Bad Wolf or Scampy. Maybe I
must reconsider my things about Mickey: are nice stories with the mouse, I
like Gotfredson stuff...

I think that if you publish an expensive comic book with more pages, for a
public with a good taste in comics you must put the best. And IMF*HO the
best's not Lil' Bad Wolf.

FABIO

bonvolu postu al longtom at oeste.com.ar

Rodney wrote:

I read some series 1 Gladstone books the other night, and I was surprised to
find that the paper in them was very white, and these were early issues (WDCS
511 etc.). The Disney books seem to have dulled a bit in the 10 or so years
since I bought them new.
------------------------------

My experience has seemed to be the opposite. I guess it's just the indivdiual
comics and not any real change in paper.

As for Lil' Bad Wolf, what has the poor lil' guy done to deserve so much
animosity? ;) The few stories I've read of him weren't that bad(a few were
actually good). At any rate, I've yet to see anything of the pup in the Gemstone
comics, so let's not complain about Lil' Bad Wolf until we actually see him.

Now for WDC 634. A great first issue! :) Several good stories in it(though
perhaps a little too slanted to the Duck side). Really, all the stories were
good in their own way. William Van Horn comes through again with a great comedy.
I've never read any of his son's work, so it was interesting to read Noel Van
Horn's Mickey story. I must admit, it won't be an all-time favorite with me,
but the twist near the end, made it different. And Gilbert's Gladstone tale...
nice to see a different side to the lucky cousin. As for Carl Barks' story,
Daan Jipes can draw so much like Bark's, it's truly hard to tell the difference.
This is the kind of Barks tale I like best, one I haven't read before!
(though the story itself had been published in the seventies, I hadn't read that).
Can't wait for US 320/WDC 635!

BTW I talked to my local comics shop owner and he said that basically only
one or two adults had been buying the Disney comics(I'm one, I wonder who the
other weirdo is. ;) But he had great hopes that the lower priced comics in
September would allow kids to get into Disney comics. But based on those order
figures I found, things weren't so bad for Gemstone's first month and everything
is looking up, especially once September gets here.

Derek Smith

Hi!
I thought this could interrest you, yesterday i received an interresting german book with a barks-based duck family tree.
you can find the scans and also a descritpion here:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/grote.html

I hope you'll enjoy it, and if you already have the book, I hope you'll re-discover it with pleasure

best regards,
Gilles