Keskustelujen arkisto

At 07:08 10.05.01 -0700, Rob Klein wrote:

>In 1949 "Race to the South Seas" Barks defines that relationship as
>follows: Uncle Scrooge is "Gladstone's Mother's Brother's Brother-in-Law".
> That is not even a distant BLOOD relationship. That is a very distant
>relationship by marriage.

Well, a "mother's brother's brother-in-law" could be the brother of the
wife of your mother's brother. In this case there is no blood relationship.
But the gag goes further than that, because this brother-in-law could also
be the husband of the sister of your mother's brother. Now, the sister of
your mother's brother could of course be your mother. This is like saying
that Scrooge is Gladstone's father!! Which of course is ridiculous! Or it
might refer to the husband of another sister. Then Scrooge would be
Gladstone's uncle-in-law. Again no blood relationship.

But let it be no doubt! It is the first interpretation (the connection that
cannot be simplified) that has to be the "correct" one!

Halsten

>> In last year even the Dutch weekly "Donald Duck" published
>> more pages from Egmont than Dutch pages!
>
>Anyway, I think that currently
>- the best Dutch stories are better than the best Egmont stories
> (not counting Mickey stories - we see very few of them here in
> Holland. And not counting Rosa stories either - they're a
> different dimension...);
> - the average Dutch story is just as dull as the average Egmont story;
> - the worst Dutch stories are better than the worst Egmont stories
> (easy to say, since Egmont is producing so much more).
>
>Vicar is too dull these days. I never liked Tello that much, and
>Bancells/Santanach art is something I really *dis*like...
>Branca is (still) great!
>
>--Harry.
>

Uh, oh. There seems to be a quite general idea of that:

i) Stories coming from HOLLAND are GREAT, SUPERIOR BY THEIR
QUALITY and really quite like something what Carl Barks used
to do. (RIGHT?!)

ii) Stories coming from DANMARK are DULL, BORING and totally
meaningless NONSENSE you don't need to account at all.

Why is this so? Are the Dutch stories really better than the
Danish stories - and how? Where's the difference? Is the truth
out there?

This list below is viewing the top-25 of the most productive
artists drawing Dutch stories H 90001 - 99295 and H 20001 -
20170: (total 2357 stories known by Inducks -files, covers
are not counted):

877pages (307stories) drawn by: Mau Heymans
785 (321) Comicup Studio
487 (73) Bas Heymans
413 (110) Jos? Colomer Fonts
407 (157) Freddy Milton
387 (128) Jaap Stavenuiter
345 (119) Bardon (Studio)
294 (99) Jos? Ramon Bernado
242 (68) Santiago Barreira
221 (16) Daan Jippes
205 (44) Sander Gulien
128 (75) Carmen P?rez
124 (8) Ben Verhagen
95 (28) Valentin Dom?nech
94 (35) Dick Matena
83 (27) Prodima
79 (120) Marga Querol Manzano
77 (17) Hans van Oudenaarden
57 (55) Wilma van den Bosch
43 (12) Blai
39 (13) Conrado Lazaro
39 (5) Jan Gulbransson
31 (25) Michel Nadorp
31 (9) Daniel P?rez
24 (24) Guido Matena

Some of the artists mentioned above are not drwaing only
Dutch stories: Colomer has been one of the most productive
artists working to Egmont since 80's. Artists such as Jos?
Ramon Bernado, Valentino, Marga Manzano or Conrado Lazaro
have not worked only for Egmont but also for Italians via
Comicup - and Santiago Barreira's style reminds astonishingly
the style of the Vicar's inker team - -

This second list below is showing the amounts of Dutch
stories H 90001 - 99295 and H 20001 - 20170 sorted out by
their pages:

0,25 pages - 243 stories
0,5 pages - 2 stories
1 page - 834 stories
2 pages - 316 stories
3 pages - 235 stories
4 pages - 364 stories
5 pages - 146 stories
6 pages - 44 stories
7 pages - 14 stories
8 pages - 16 stories
9 pages - 14 stories
10 pages - 67 stories
11 pages - 9 stories
12 pages - 17 stories
13 pages - 6 stories
14 pages - 4 stories
15 pages - 4 stories
16 pages - 7 stories
17 pages - 0 stories
18 pages - 2 stories
19 pages - 3 stories
20 pages - 3 stories
21 pages - 1 story
22 pages - 3 stories
23 pages - 3 stories
24 or more - none

As it is shown, Dutch are mainly concentrated to produce
short stories ("fillers") - Note that there are only some
150 stories having 8-16 pages. That's not very high number
from a over ten year period.

It's not only a recent trend that Egmont stories are being
found from Dutch weeklies:
Here's the top-30 list showing the most published artists
and the amounts of their published pages and stories in
Dutch weeklies 1/1995 - 52/2000 (covers are not counted):

1596pages (152stories) drawn by Victor Arriagada Rios
473 (186) Mau Heymans
431 (135) Comicup Studio
345 (66) Jos? Colomer Fonts
308 (34) Daniel Branca
275 (43) Bas Heymans
273 (90) Bardon
248 (44) Jack Bradbury
237 (63) Santiago Barreira
206 (74) Freddy Milton
204 (37) Jos? Ramon Bernado
191 (25) Carl Barks
183 (33) Sander Gulien
177 (35) Al Hubbard
155 (44) Floyd Gottfredson
134 (33) Paul Murry
126 (75) Carmen P?rez
107 (43) Jaap Stavenuiter
106 (44) Al Taliaferro
89 (7) Daan Jippes
78 (21) Jorge David Redo
74 (18) Valentin Dom?nech
73 (18) Antonio Gil-Bao
70 (17) Tony Strobl
65 (15) Santiago Scalabroni
57 (13) Jos? Tello Gonzalez
55 (6) William Van Horn
52 (13) Juan Torres Perez
52 (7) Tino Santanach Hernandez
49 (8) Romano Scarpa
49 (3) Ben Verhagen

Note that there are no missing lines above. In Dutch weekly
during last six years Vicar's dull Egmont stories have been
seen over three times than what have the most published
Dutchman's (Heymans) stories!
Since the Dutch stories are an average so short, it's not a
miracle that Dutch editors are using Vicar's and Branca's
stories as weeklies first leading stories.

This table below shows the amounts of pages and stories from
Danmark and from Holland published in Dutch weekly 1/1990 -
12/2001:

year: D (Danmark) - H (Holland)
1990: 444pages (74stories) - 456pages (154stories)
1991: 407 (71) - 509 (165)
1992: 451 (76) - 522 (116)
1993: 499 (78) - 504 (165)
1994: 405 (55) - 482 (157)
1995: 511 (68) - 511 (174)
1996: 334 (46) - 794 (266)
1997: 398 (51) - 705 (248)
1998: 560 (69) - 598 (241)
1999: 444 (78) - 418 (222)
2000: 664 (98) - 502 (220)
2001: 138 (21) - 133 (53)

As seen here, Dutch weekly contains stories from Holland and
from Danmark quite equally. Western -stories are having only
some 100-300 pages per year. The most remarkable point is the
lenght of stories from these two sources: not many fillers
from Egmont are being seen in Dutch weekly.

CONCLUSIONS: ------------------- - -

- Some of the artists of the Dutch stories are familiar also
from stories produced in Danmark and Italy.
- Dutch are not producing lot's of material for weeklies.
- The stories Dutch produce are mainly short fillers, long
adventureous stories are (nearly) rare.

Leading: =>

- Are the writers behind the quality of the Dutch stories?
- Is the quality of the Dutch stories so high after all?
- Dutch are not producing even half of the material needed to
fill all the weeklies of a one single year.
- What would happen to the quality of the Dutch stories if they
would need to increase their production?

- If Jippes' Barks -remake stories were not counted would the
best Dutch stories be still better than the best Egmont stories?
:

Somehow I think all stories are needed. Weeklies eats a huge
amount of pages every year - all the pages Barks draw wouldn't
last more than 3-4 years - famous almost-Barks-like stories
drawn by Jippes & Milton from the 1970's to the mid-80's would
last only 2-3 months - It sure is fun to get something new to
read every week.

(In a long run) how would the popularity of the Northern Europe
weeklies go if they were compiled by using only "high-quality
comics from Holland" and Barks re-re-re-re-re-re-prints - and
they came out only once or twice per month? (quite like in the
USA in the 90's)
It's also likely that nobody was boring enough to read this
message this far. >(

- Simo

Stefan Di?s wrote:

> Let me also relate a very interesting post from the Swedish list by Lars
> Petrus, who reminds us that many people were suspicious when margarine
> first was introduced some 50 years ago. It was regarded somewhat
unnatural,
> maybe like some people think today of food that has been manipulated
> genetically. Lars says that margarine even had to be colored blue in
> Sweden, lest some unsuspecting customer might confuse it with real butter!
> This is something I've never heard before, and I'll agree with Lars that
it
> might have added some comedy to the mentioning of the substance in 1955.
>

And I reply:

Some here may recall another interesting fact about the early production of
margarine. Here in the U.S.A., margarine had no real color, it was
basically translucent (almost clear). When you bought it at the store,
included was a packet of yellow food coloring that you were supposed to mix
in with the margarine to make it look like butter. According to Stefan's
post, Sweden opted for blue food coloring instead.

I could certainly see Donald spending his work day squishing various food
colorings into margarine for export to different nations. To relieve his
boredom, he might decide to creatively squeeze (finger-paint style) multiple
colors into the goo in rough patterns that looked like the flags of the
corresponding countries. To me, that would be funny.

--
Dan Shane
(danshane at bellsouth.net)

This is not as off-topic as it may seem at first.

Thanks, Don Markstein, for your remembering Li'l Abner's character "Big
Barnsmell." As I recall there was also a scrawny little fellow with a black
hat that looked like someone (or some animal) had taken several bites out of
the hat brim. Can't remember his name, however.

The late 1930's starting time of Li'l Abner would seem to confirm that
Donald Duck's employment at the "skunk oil factory" was a sly little
Barksian reference to the enormously popular Li'l Abner comic strip. For
those not familiar with the strip, which probably includes anyone born in
about 1965 onward, including North Americans, the strip was so popular that
at least two of its characters have entered the American dialect. "Sadie
Hawkins Day" is the one day of the year on which all of the unmarried men in
Dogpatch (the name of the town where Li'l Abner lives) hide -- because on
that day, any woman who catches and drags an unmarried man back to a finish
line can force him to marry her. (Sadie Hawkins was a character who
originated this custom. "Marryin' Sam" was the minister who performed the
marriages; this name is also sometimes used today to idiomatically refer to
someone who performs a lot of marriages.) This was the basis for a very
popular musical comedy of the 1960's, whose plot revolved around Sadie
Hawkins Day. As a result of the comic strip and musical, EVEN TODAY high
schools in the U.S. often have "Sadie Hawkins" dances, where the girls
invite the boys. Of course most of the students have no idea why they call
them "Sadie Hawkins" dances now.

Now, remember the stories where Daisy is trying to catch Donald to help her
with house-cleaning, and he tries to hide? In one of them, Daisy catches
H,D, and L, and they help her catch Donald. Doesn't this also sound like a
little reference to Sadie Hawkins Day? I always thought that story was a
Sadie Hawkins Day parody, even many, many years ago when I first read it.

A. C. Sivebaek :

>>She changed the
>>Screaming Cowboy to Crying Sailor also..
>The song of the Crying Sailor is a classic in Denmark. a singer made
>it, a girl tried to claim she made it, and a mayopr newspaper made a
>cotnast in 1999 telling people to make some more verses for it.

Could you tell more about this? Who sung it?

>They
>sing it on the tune of Home on the range. (ranch?) - In Sweden the
>founders of Nafs(k) travelled to Calisota and found the lyrics for it.

And what is this? Are these lyrics available somewhere in the net?
Very same song is classic in Finland too, and same kind of attemps to add
lyrics to it have done here also. And I think some band even recorded the
song (don´t remeber the name of it just now).
There was long discussion of this subject some time ago here. About the
origin and the influence where Barks might have got the idea to make that
song as Screaming Cowboy.

Timo

^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/timoro/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://welcome.to/ankistit
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"

_________________________________________________________________________
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Finnish band "Hojot" recorded "Itkevä merimies" (Screaming Cowboy) on their
single. It has only those words which were published in a. I haven´t heard
that.

I also found this:
http://www.stroudpuppets.com/Family.htm

"How the Puppets Won the West is a knee slapping good ol' time for all
including The Song of the Screaming Cowboy, I Love a Rainy Night, and an
original melodrama."
Huh?

Timo

^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/timoro/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://welcome.to/ankistit
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

> As I recall there was also a scrawny little fellow with a black
> hat that looked like someone (or some animal) had taken several bites out
of
> the hat brim. Can't remember his name, however.

That sounds like it could be Joe Blftsplk (spelling approximate -- I can
easily spell either of the variants on "Mxyzptlk" but I often get that one
wrong when I don't look it up). Always had a tiny raincloud over his head,
because he was the Anti-Gladstone, i.e., world's unluckiest person. Of
course, you might be thinking of any number of others, because practically
every character in that strip who had a hat, looked like it had pieces
bitten off.

Actually, Abner started in 1934 -- it was in the late '30s that it started
hitting its stride. The Broadway musical opened in 1956 (and had a revival
quite recently, I believe), and the movie version came out in '59.

Other commonly-heard American English words from that strip are "druthers"
(to have your druthers is to be allowed to do what you'd rather do, or, in
Abner dialect, what you "druther" do) and "irregardless" (an intensified
version of "regardless", deplored by anyone who thinks people should use
"correct" grammar and diction).

An extremely popular strip in its time, and with good reason -- it was very,
very funny. Barks was almost certainly influenced by Capp, one of America's
leading humorists. And I'd say both were probably influenced by Frederick
Burr Opper, a very prominent cartoonist a generation or two before them.

And yeah, I can kinda see Barks thinking of Sadie Hawkins Day when he had
Daisy chasing around for Donald. Some of the situations Donald got into were
VERY reminiscent of Abner trying to elude Daisy Mae.

Quack, Don

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