Keskustelujen arkisto

HARRY WRITES IN RESPONSE TO MY IDIOT COMMENT:

> > I understand the blueprints are shown as black lines on blue
> > paper, instead of white lines on blue paper as they should.
>
> No, they are all white on blue. Who told you otherwise?

AND I SHEEPISHLY APOLOGIZE:

I was mixing up the Dutch edition with the German and Italian versions.
I've personally seen none of these, and I spoke too soon.

HARRY POINTS OUT ANOTHER MISTAKE:

> > > Page 13 has the text "Footnote: this intersection drawing is not
> > > completely
> > > worked out, for the overview (but mainly because the artist was
> > > too LAZY for
> > > it)". Does this reflect the original text?
>
> > That was obviously an addition by an editor or translator,
> > but Don may have
> > more accurate information. In any case, I don't know who the
> > person is trying to insult
>
> I don't think this was meant as an insult in any way.
>
> --Harry.

AND I TRY TO PULL MY FOOT OUT OF MY MOUTH:

I'm batting a thousand. Don informed me that he indeed added that note in
his script, so he was injecting self-deprecating humor. Now it's my turn,
and I'm not nearly as good at it. I'm grateful to Harry for catching my
errors. I need to go back to silent mode to avoid further confusion.

Dumb ol' Dan

ME
>>So Dan, you wont have to call the ombudsman
>>(which is a loan word from swedish or danish btw)

Sigvald:
>
>No, no, no!!! It definately comes from the NORWEGIAN
>word "ombudsmann".
>It was probably loaned into English
>from the Norwegian vikings in Ireland, Scotland, the
>Hebrides, Shetland or Man. This is stuff I learned
>during my early university studies in the late 1980's.
I said swedish because I didn't want to insult by only writing danish -
it shows I shouldn't have written norwegian then - we have exactly
the same word in danish though, but our two languages are quite close.
The vikings you say? i believe you :-)
>
>It means a representative btw., like "Barneombudet" =
>"The children's representative".
Exactly

Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist

Sigvald:

This is totally off-topic. People who are not interested should skip the
rest of this mail.

> Another t[h]read is called "Rosa in Holland". Technically
> this means "Rosa in the province of Holland" because
> Holland is a part of Netherlands like England is a
> part of UK.

Technically: no. Holland is not a province of the Netherlands. It was split
up in the 1860s, now making two provinces: Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland.
"Holland" does not mean anything anymore. Technically.

> Just wonder what our Dutch friends here think anout
> this?

I introduced the subject myself, so I don't mind - in the English language,
that is. As far as I know, all foreign languages except Norwegian, have a
PLURAL name for my country (The Netherlands, Les Pays-Bas, etc.). In
every-day language, using "Holland" is more convenient, and it's not VERY
wrong.

In Dutch (and in Norwegian), my country is called "Nederland". A singular
form. And in Dutch, the word "Holland" also means "the western part of the
country, around Amsterdam, where the arrogant people live who think the rest
of the country is not worth mentioning". So in the Dutch language I object
to using "Holland" for the entire country. But I'm sure this is not of
interest to you.

Now why does my country have two names, and why is one of them in plural?
That's for historic reasons.

In the 16th century, 17 counties ("graafschappen" etc.) declared themselves
independent from Spain. They called themselves "The republic of the 17
united Netherlands". After a war that lasted 80 years, Spain gave up half of
the area, which became "The republic of the 7 united Netherlands". Spain
kept the other half: this later became Belgium (and was long called the
Southern, Spanish, or Austrian Netherlands).

Now "The Republic of the 7 united Netherlands" was quite a mouth full. So
they shortened it to "The Netherlands". And even that was too long, so
usually people just mentioned the county that was the most powerful (in the
17th century): Holland.

And now this proud Dutchman will end his mail with some local geography. The
12 provinces that are currently The Netherlands, are:

Groningen (main city: Groningen, last week's Giro d'Italia city. I was born
there)
Friesland (where they speak Frisian, a language that's somewhere between
Dutch and English)
Drente
Overijssel
Flevoland (before 1930, the area of this province was all sea)
Gelderland (contains lots of cities, but not Geldern, which is now in
Germany)
Utrecht (main city: Utrecht)
Noord-Holland (main cities: Amsterdam, Haarlem, and also Edam)
Zuid-Holland (main cities: Rotterdam, The Hague, Gouda, and also
Leidschendam...)
Zeeland (New Zealand was named after this province)
Noord-Brabant (main city: Eindhoven, maybe famous because of PSV. This
province is "North" Brabant: the rest of the ancient Brabant is now in
Belgium)
Limburg (main city: Maastricht, the place where main decisions about Europe
were made)

Enough off-topicness for DCML.

--Harry.
Harry Fluks, Leidschendam, The Netherands

On Wed, 15 May 2002, Fluks, H.W. wrote:

> Sure. Ombudsman is a Dutch word. Just like kn?ckebr?d and sauna. And
> fingerspitzengef?hl, joie-de-vivre, mozzarella, and talkshow.

Totally off-topic, but I couldn't resist: I wonder if there is any
language (apart from Swedish) that doesn't call the sauna "sauna"?
(and also, if there's any language that doesn't call an idea something
derived and very similar to the original "idea"?)

-jussi
--
. jussi mantere
. http://www.iki.fi/obs/
. mister, i ain't no boy, no i'm a man
.. and i believe in the promised land

Well, I guess we Dutch should consider ourselves lucky, shouldn't
we? After all, with the publication of "The Crown of the Crusader
Kings" in next week's "Donald Duck"-magazine, there are only
three Don Rosa-stories left unpublished in Holland, and these are
only the newest three (the last one probably not even finished yet)
so they will appear very soon (within two years, at maximum).

Seems like "they" (the VNU-press, or whatever it's named
nowadays) sure have an idea of the popularity of Don's stories,
when they reprint them in the "Oom Dagobert"-album series.

Well, yes. They have, or may have, indeed an idea of the
*popularity*, but not of *Don's stories*. Why do they publish an
album containing "Hearts of the Yukon", with an *ugly rip-off cover*,
based on Don's cover for "the Vigilante of Pizen Bluff"? When "the
Vigilante" will be published in the next album, will they give it an
ugly rip-off of Don's "Hearts"-cover?

What's wrong with Don's original covers? Why don't they use the
originals? Not attractive enough? Not 'smooth' enough?
(Michel Nadorp's covers for "Donald Duck Extra"-magazine are
drawn in a 'smooth' style. I believe 'smooth' is the right word.)

Why should such a grand story like "The Crown of the Crusader
Kings" be published on a weeny mini-album format? (And of course
they'll use the three-part-version, and publish it in two parts. And
redraw some of the balloons to make them bigger.)

I think I can understand why "The Three Caballeros ride again"
wasn't pubished in the Donald Duck Extra: it featured Joe Carioca
and Panchito, and DDEx is 'Ducks only' (no Mice allowed).
(Nearly all Don Rosa-stories in Holland were published in DDEx.)
But "the Crown" is a perfect all-Ducks adventure and deserves to
be published on a normal format. (Not that "The Three Caballeros"
doesn't deserve that.)

Harry, thanks for mentioning the mini-album, otherwise I would
have missed it.

"The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" was published in DDEx 2001-13
and something went wrong with the printing, so now you can see
*pixels*, no straight ink lines, but *pixeled* ink lines. Bother.
Some of the jokes went missing too (compared to the French
version in Picsou Magazine). The remark about the canal workers
earning thirty cents an hour was translated to "1 guilder per hour".
In the beginning, Scrooge doesn't reflect on his transaction in
Panama as "the worst deal I ever made", so when it in the end
turns out to be his "best deal", the clou of the story is less
convincing. Bother.

They screwed up "The Guardians of the Lost Library" too, by
changing the Junior Woodchuck-logo, so the whole point of the
conversion from ibis to WJW got lost.

(Why "WJW"? Junior Woodcucks is JW, so why a second W?
Does a double W make a quadruple U?)

Why don't the editors and translators of our Dutch magazines pay
proper respect to the stories that are presented to them?
If they write an "editorial page" for a "Oom Dagobert"-album, why
don't they do some research? It's easy. Any fanboy, like me, can
get a lot of information from the internet, just by irregularly
checking the DCML Archives, the Duckhunt pages, Harry's
Bolderbast site. If I can, why can't these professional editors?
It looks like they don't have any idea what they're printing.

Question to Harry (or any member who has bought the new "Oom
Dagobert"-album): Which are the other two stories the album
contains? (The album is sold in a plastic bag, so I couldn't take a
look inside. And no, I won't buy it.)

Michiel Prior.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."

Hi
Somehow I just had the oppurtunity to see the MoneyBin vs beagle Boys
story in dutch. - the blueprints are fine -
but, and I don't want to start the interesing discussion again, I will
just say: the euro-sign is downright ugly on those pages. -
In the other version I''ve seen whatever letters, signs were there, they
looked fine - being in the same style as the
rest of the drawing - thin lines, forming the KR, DD or whatever. This is
the same child with a markerpen sign
that we have seen so often in the german MM with DD's on the bin that
don't look like eachother from one panel to the other.
The rest of the story looks fine.

Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist

> From: dcml-admin at stp.ling.uu.se
> [mailto:dcml-admin at stp.ling.uu.se] On Behalf Of Fluks, H.W.
> Sent: woensdag 15 mei 2002 15:09

> Technically: no. Holland is not a province of the
> Netherlands. It was split up in the 1860s, now making two
> provinces: Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland. "Holland" does not
> mean anything anymore. Technically.

> And in Dutch, the word
> "Holland" also means "the western part of the country, around
> Amsterdam, where the arrogant people live who think the rest
> of the country is not worth mentioning". So in the Dutch
> language I object to using "Holland" for the entire country.

How funny, never knew where the name Holland came from...
A lot of people consider Holland=Nederland where I live (Gelderland
province). For example usually if the Dutch soccer team is on a big
event (don't start about the WorldCup :-() all the fans yell Holland
too!
-- Roy