Keskustelujen arkisto

--- Jussi Mantere <jmantere at niksula.hut.fi> skrev: >
On Wed, 15 May 2002, Fluks, H.W. wrote:
>
> > Sure. Ombudsman is a Dutch word. Just like
> kn?ckebr?d and sauna. And
> > fingerspitzengef?hl, joie-de-vivre, mozzarella,
> and talkshow.
>
> Totally off-topic, but I couldn't resist: I wonder
> if there is any language (apart from Swedish) that
> doesn't call the sauna "sauna"?

In Norwegian we say "badstue".

Best regards from
Sigvald :-)

______________________________________________________
Yahoo! Dokumentmappe
Tilgang til dine viktigste filer uansett hvor du er!
http://no.briefcase.yahoo.com/

Sigvald wrote:

> Well your country also has two names (at least in
> Norwegian) "Grekenland" (the same as Greece)and
> "Hellas".
>
> Can you tell us more about the difference between
> these terms?

I don't think that is actually difference in the terms like Holland and
Netherlands. In Greek is pronounced "Ellada" apprevation we call it
sometimes "Ellas" so "Hellas" in other languages. Hellas is more closely
maybe with "Ellada" than the Greece. I don't know if it is actually
historical difference. Maybe Apostolis or other Greek person now more.

Best Wishes!

George Agridiotis, Nicosia, Cyprus
E-mail: agridiotis at cytanet.com.cy
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixwebsite

Hi all

Sigvald wrote:

> Well your country also has two names (at least in
> Norwegian) "Grekenland" (the same as Greece) and
> "Hellas".
> Can you tell us more about the difference between
> these terms?

and George wrote:

> Hellas is more closely maybe with "Ellada" than the
> Greece. I don't know if it is actually historical
> difference.

I think you're right, George. As I know, there is no
difference between "Greece" and "Ellada" / "Ellas".
"Greece" is just the English word, which in my opinion
is strange or even wrong. Why they don't call it
"Hellas" or "Hellada" or "Ellada"?
You will notice that many many times the word "Greek"
is being replaced by "Hellenic", which is more
correct.
Anyway, the right/original word for my country is
"Hellada" :-)
Best Wishes from Athens, Hellada (29*C/79*F, wow! The
summer just started!)

=====
Apostolis Trikourakis, Athens, Greece
E-mail: komixgreekpage at yahoo.com
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/komixgreekpage

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

"Stefan Persson" <reimersholme at hotmail.com> writes:

> Can someone please tell me what's going on? I have quoted the message I
> tried to send below this error thing. Am I the only one having this strange
> problem?

Yes, the error message you got told you what the problem was:

> > Try reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in
> > the To: or Cc: fields."

The list address is dcml at stp.ling.uu.se, by the way, and the message
wasn't sent to that address. The message you got also said where to
ask if this wasn't clear:

> > Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
> > at:
> > dcml-admin at stp.ling.uu.se

but since you brought it up to the whole list I guess I'd better reply
here too, even though neither this, nor the message you didn't get
through has anything to do with Disney comics.

ALL:

In Luxembourg, we say "Holland",

APOSTOLIS:

I sent you 2 private mails. They seem to have gone to Timbuktu
(my apologies for this part of the message to the list)

Georges

Frank:

> > > Page 13 has the text "Footnote: this intersection drawing is not
> > > completely
> > > worked out, for the overview (but mainly because the artist was
> > > too LAZY for
> > > it)". Does this reflect the original text? (To me it
> > > looks like an apology
> > > that the panel does not match with the blueprints...)

> I think you [and Dan are] jumping to the wrong conclusions too
> quickly. To me it sounds just like a joke by the author.

To me it also sounded like a Rosa joke. *And* a way to apologise that the
panels don't match the blueprints.

--Harry.

JUSSI:

> (and also, if there's any language that doesn't call an idea something
> derived and very similar to the original "idea"?)

Try any non-Indoeuropean language. (I would assume that there is at
least one Chinese word for "idea". I'm also surprised that, judging from
your question, there isn't a Finnish one--or is "idea" just one of the
alternatives in the Finnish language?)

I was going to try a sort of inverse question, and ask if there is any
language, other that Greek, who calls Greeks by their own name (Hellenes),
rather than Greeks, Ionians, or Romans, but a similar discussion has
already started, so I'll just jump in.

APOSTOLIS:

> In Greece, we say "Ollandia" which means "Holland",
> not "The Netherlands".

The official name is "Kato Hores", which means something like "lower
countries". You are right, however, that this term is not used in
everyday speech.

SIGVALD:

> Well your country also has two names (at least in
> Norwegian) "Grekenland" (the same as Greece)and
> "Hellas".
>
> Can you tell us more about the difference between
> these terms?

WAY, WAY OFF-TOPIC REPLY:

Actually, our country has only one name: Hellas, which, in ordinary speech
has evolved into "Ellada", as Apostolis mentioned [prononced ell-ah-tha
stress on the second synnable, with the "th" pronounced as in the word
"the"]. Greeks call themselves "Hellenes" [pronounced "hell-leans", if you
are English, Ell-in-ess (stress on the first syllable) if you are a modern
Greek, and somewhere in between if you are an Ancient Greek]. All other
names were given to Greeks by other people, namely Romans and Turks:

* Romans first met a people called "Graikoi", which they transcribed as
"Graeci" (or something like that), from which the name used in most
western countries is derived.
* Turks first met Ionian Greeks, which they transcribed as "Yunan",
which is their name for Greeks, with "Yunanistan" being the Turkish name
for Greece. I believe that this term is also used in parts of Asia.
* Greeks do have another name for themselves, as a people: "Romioi"
(plural, singular is "Romios"), which is an abbreviated form of
"Romaioi", i.e., Romans. For centuries after the fall of Rome, the
Eastern part of the Roman Empire survived and prospered. The name of
the empire remained "Rome", and its people "Romans" ("Byzantium" is a
term that was coined by scholars relatively recently). This third name
was more of an indication of citizenship, rather than nationality,
as the Eastern Roman Empire encompassed more than Greeks. Derived
from this name is another Turkish name for Greeks, "Rum" (or something
like that). Mainland Greece used to be the "Rum province" during the
Turkish occupation.

Ancient Greeks would call themselves Hellenes (but not too ancient--the
name is hardly mentioned in Homer, and if it is, it is used to describe
a small group of Greeks). During Byzantine times, the name fell into
disgrace (it became something like the opposite of "Christian"), and
Hellenes became Romans. When independence was gained from the Turks,
the name "Hellas" was reintroduced, partly under the influence of the
Romantic movement, which had been in vogue at that time in Europe.
These days, Greeks hardly call themselves "Romans" anymore. As for the
other two terms, the term "Greek" was hardly ever used by Greeks to
describe themselves, and "Ionian" was probably never used at all.

Now, aren't you sorry you asked?

Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Absolute power never appealed to me either. Fine for the first couple of
weeks, but then there's all that tedious paperwork."
-----

Michiel:

> there are only
> three Don Rosa-stories left unpublished in Holland, and these are
> only the newest three

I didn't realise that. I already wondered why the Rosa stories are so few
and far between, but I didn't take the time to check my own indexes.
I guess we have to blame mr. Rosa for the low number of new stories. 8-)

> Seems like "they" (the VNU-press, or whatever it's named
> nowadays) sure have an idea of the popularity of Don's stories,
> when they reprint them in the "Oom Dagobert"-album series.

Sanoma. (This sounds like a Finnish pudding.)

And yes, they know the popularity of Rosa stuff. But that's no reason for
them to treat the person Rosa any different from other creators...

> What's wrong with Don's original covers? Why don't they use the
> originals? Not attractive enough? Not 'smooth' enough?

That can't be the reason, since they (e.g. Maarten Janssens) make new covers
in Rosa's style. I think the reason is that *every* cover in Holland is
drawn or redrawn by the Dutch art department. They have a bunch of people
dedicated to making covers. Even the Barks covers are redrawn when they are
used as a cover.

> "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" was published in DDEx 2001-13
> and something went wrong with the printing, so now you can see
> *pixels*, no straight ink lines, but *pixeled* ink lines.

I think the problem was that this story came from France. Maybe they didn't
even get the stats from the French editors, but scanned the published story
directly?

> They screwed up "The Guardians of the Lost Library" too, by
> changing the Junior Woodchuck-logo, so the whole point of the
> conversion from ibis to WJW got lost.

Not lost, IMO. They changed the JW logo in such a way that it still
resembles an upside-down ibis.

> (Why "WJW"? Junior Woodcucks is JW, so why a second W?

"JWW" = "Junior Woodchucks of the World".

> Why don't the editors and translators of our Dutch magazines pay
> proper respect to the stories that are presented to them?

They give Rosa's stories as much respect as any other story. Or maybe a bit
more. But (as I'm told) they don't want to spend VERY much extra effort on
the stories.

> If they write an "editorial page" for a "Oom Dagobert"-album, why
> don't they do some research?

I think Thom Roep still writes these texts himself. I think he doesn't want
any other person to do it. Even when he isn't that interested in Rosa
himself.

> Which are the other two stories the album contains?

In Inducksese:

OD 67a HC OD 67 1 c US
OD 67b IC ZP 0hi MRt US [/US en Goldie in
vlammen]
OD 67c D 95044 24 DR DR US Bevroren harten
OD 67d D 90345 10 DR DR DD Wie hoog werkt kan laag
vallen!
OD 67e AR 104 10 DR DR DD Dieren versieren

(I didn't look for the exact origin of the Marco Rota drawing yet.)

Roy:

> How funny, never knew where the name Holland came from...
> A lot of people consider Holland=Nederland where I live (Gelderland
> province). For example usually if the Dutch soccer team is on a big
> event (don't start about the WorldCup :-() all the fans yell Holland
> too!

Maybe I was too strict. Lost of Dutch people indeed use Holland as a synonym
for Nederland. But *I* was born in Groningen, and *I* don't like the idea
that Groningen is in Holland... 8-)

Georges:

> In Luxembourg, we say "Holland",

Is that German, French, or Letzebuergisch? And is Holland the *only* name
for the country?

--Harry.
(In Holland, we say "Luxemburg".)