On Wed, 8 May 2002, Kriton Kyrimis wrote:
> Am I the only one who would simply like to shake hands and have a brief
> chat with Don, and not ask for autographs or drawings?
I don't think you are - I guess a chat about Disney comics and life in
general would be a lot more fun than having Don's name scribbled all over
my magazines :)
Actually this brought a question in my mind: Don, does it ever bother you
(or even puzzle you) to be considered such a "star" and a celebrity at
least here in Finland? Wouldn't you rather be just a normal Mr.
Comic-artist who likes to draw ducks?-)
> I'm showing off my ignorance here, but why would a dedication by Don
> decrease, rather than increase a comic book's value?
It makes them illegal trade. Clearly having the autograph of someone else
except Walt Disney on a Disney comic is a violation of something. Doesn't
Walt draw them all himself?-)
-jussi
--
. jussi mantere
. http://www.iki.fi/obs/
. mister, i ain't no boy, no i'm a man
.. and i believe in the promised land
Author
Topic: 200205
(291 messages)
Jussi Mantere
Collector WeaselsCollector Weasels
Message 76 -
2002-05-08 at 15:28:18
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Cover for "Gyro's First Invention
Message 77 -
2002-05-08 at 16:14:22
Hi again!
When looking at the homepage for Danish Anders And &
Co I discovered that the cover for AA&Co #19/2002
seems to be flipped compared to its counterparts in
Norway, Sweden and Finland.
While Scrooge is to the left and Donald is to the
right in Norway/Sweden/Finland
http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/index2.html
The situation is the opposite in Denmark:
http://www.disney.dk/andersand/index2.html
Do anyone know why this has happened?
And what version is correct?
And, by the way, in the facsimile in the back of DD&Co
#18/2002 it looks like there is two helpers or a
double helper in Gyro's hand. Do any one know more
about this?
Best regards from
Sigvald :-)
______________________________________________________
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Tilgang til dine viktigste filer uansett hvor du er!
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When looking at the homepage for Danish Anders And &
Co I discovered that the cover for AA&Co #19/2002
seems to be flipped compared to its counterparts in
Norway, Sweden and Finland.
While Scrooge is to the left and Donald is to the
right in Norway/Sweden/Finland
http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/index2.html
The situation is the opposite in Denmark:
http://www.disney.dk/andersand/index2.html
Do anyone know why this has happened?
And what version is correct?
And, by the way, in the facsimile in the back of DD&Co
#18/2002 it looks like there is two helpers or a
double helper in Gyro's hand. Do any one know more
about this?
Best regards from
Sigvald :-)
______________________________________________________
Yahoo! Dokumentmappe
Tilgang til dine viktigste filer uansett hvor du er!
http://no.briefcase.yahoo.com/
Francois Willot
Picsou translations
Message 78 -
2002-05-08 at 19:18:31
Fluks, H.W. wrote:
>> In France, they switched from the Franc to the
dollar
>> when the euro came. I am not a fanatic of
consistency
>> in the Duck universe, but in this case, IMO, it was
>> the best solution. It respects Barks' original
>> intentions (and even the whole production of
Italian
>> comics which always used the $).
>
> Barks' original intentions were that the comic
stories were published in an
> American comic, read once, and then destroyed.
>
> One can have two viewpoints:
> 1. Barks intended the Ducks to be in the USA;
> 2. Barks intended the Ducks to be in the country of
the reader.
>
> For Barks himself, 1 and 2 were the same. So in a
foreign translation,
> either viewpoint can be defended.
I'll rephrase what I said. I think we should not try
to imagine what Barks exactly thought (which we'll
never know) but focus on the comics themself. Like in
any author's work, these comics may contain elements
and ideas that Barks didn't even imagine or thought
of.
I don't see any reason for changing the dollar symbol
to euro or any other currency. It seems like changing
the place of a novel of John Fante to a French city
because it could fit anywhere else or because Fante
said he does not mind about the exact place where his
story is set. Or that a Dutch translation of the
Misérables would change Paris to Amsterdam because for
Hugo it could be in any big city in the XIXth century.
No serious publisher would do that.
I think that in a translation, character names should
also be kept. That's why I said that if they use the
name "Goldie" instead of "Doretta Doremi", they should
also use "Scrooge" instead of Picsou. The original
names, the exact locations, currencies, etc. are not
important, but I don't see why they should be changed.
I have the following feeling:
Based on how you imagine Barks viewed his stories
(that the location of the story is anywhere, and that
the story time-line is the "present"), you try to
recreate these original ideas by changing elements of
the story so that they fit with your time-line (2000s)
and your location (Netherlands).
I think this is a wrong approach!
First you don't know how Barks exactly viewed his
stories. The response will always be subjective.
Secondly, whatever Barks said about the stories, they
can not fit anywhere. There are no indian arrows to
find in Europe, there was no Gold Rush in 1849 etc. So
to make the story fit in the Netherlands, you'll have
to considerably change some stories and you'll end up
not making a translation but a second work based on
Carl Barks' original.
So the only way to "recreate" the feeling of the story
as Barks intended it is I think by making the most
faithful translation as possible (changing no name, no
location etc.) and have an idea of how was California
in the 40s and 50s (Barks' environment) was. This is
can be done with any other author's work.
>And now it seems the French Picsou editors are
changing the Barks stories so
>they look more like Rosa's stories. This is something
I would object to (if
>I were French). Don often said "if you don't like my
stories, just skip
>them. They don't change anything in the Barks
stories", but now this is not
>true anymore in France!
Picsou doesn't change Barks' stories. It is I think
the most faithful translation of these stories in
French. They don't make the stories fit Rosa's
universe either: the inconsistencies of Barks'
universe are kept (like the money bin created in
1951).
I think that the use of the Franc only showed the lack
of respect for Barks' stories that the editors never
considered as an artistic work, but as "material" they
could change to whatever was their wish. That of
course was their right, but today Barks is recognized
as one of the best comic artists ever and readers want
to read his stories, not a subjective, and often bad
"adaptation" by unknown writers.
Francois
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
>> In France, they switched from the Franc to the
dollar
>> when the euro came. I am not a fanatic of
consistency
>> in the Duck universe, but in this case, IMO, it was
>> the best solution. It respects Barks' original
>> intentions (and even the whole production of
Italian
>> comics which always used the $).
>
> Barks' original intentions were that the comic
stories were published in an
> American comic, read once, and then destroyed.
>
> One can have two viewpoints:
> 1. Barks intended the Ducks to be in the USA;
> 2. Barks intended the Ducks to be in the country of
the reader.
>
> For Barks himself, 1 and 2 were the same. So in a
foreign translation,
> either viewpoint can be defended.
I'll rephrase what I said. I think we should not try
to imagine what Barks exactly thought (which we'll
never know) but focus on the comics themself. Like in
any author's work, these comics may contain elements
and ideas that Barks didn't even imagine or thought
of.
I don't see any reason for changing the dollar symbol
to euro or any other currency. It seems like changing
the place of a novel of John Fante to a French city
because it could fit anywhere else or because Fante
said he does not mind about the exact place where his
story is set. Or that a Dutch translation of the
Misérables would change Paris to Amsterdam because for
Hugo it could be in any big city in the XIXth century.
No serious publisher would do that.
I think that in a translation, character names should
also be kept. That's why I said that if they use the
name "Goldie" instead of "Doretta Doremi", they should
also use "Scrooge" instead of Picsou. The original
names, the exact locations, currencies, etc. are not
important, but I don't see why they should be changed.
I have the following feeling:
Based on how you imagine Barks viewed his stories
(that the location of the story is anywhere, and that
the story time-line is the "present"), you try to
recreate these original ideas by changing elements of
the story so that they fit with your time-line (2000s)
and your location (Netherlands).
I think this is a wrong approach!
First you don't know how Barks exactly viewed his
stories. The response will always be subjective.
Secondly, whatever Barks said about the stories, they
can not fit anywhere. There are no indian arrows to
find in Europe, there was no Gold Rush in 1849 etc. So
to make the story fit in the Netherlands, you'll have
to considerably change some stories and you'll end up
not making a translation but a second work based on
Carl Barks' original.
So the only way to "recreate" the feeling of the story
as Barks intended it is I think by making the most
faithful translation as possible (changing no name, no
location etc.) and have an idea of how was California
in the 40s and 50s (Barks' environment) was. This is
can be done with any other author's work.
>And now it seems the French Picsou editors are
changing the Barks stories so
>they look more like Rosa's stories. This is something
I would object to (if
>I were French). Don often said "if you don't like my
stories, just skip
>them. They don't change anything in the Barks
stories", but now this is not
>true anymore in France!
Picsou doesn't change Barks' stories. It is I think
the most faithful translation of these stories in
French. They don't make the stories fit Rosa's
universe either: the inconsistencies of Barks'
universe are kept (like the money bin created in
1951).
I think that the use of the Franc only showed the lack
of respect for Barks' stories that the editors never
considered as an artistic work, but as "material" they
could change to whatever was their wish. That of
course was their right, but today Barks is recognized
as one of the best comic artists ever and readers want
to read his stories, not a subjective, and often bad
"adaptation" by unknown writers.
Francois
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Francois Willot
Money bin
Message 79 -
2002-05-08 at 19:24:44
Harry:
>Yes. There are many Barks stories where the bin is
*not* on a hill. There
>are in fact stories by Barks where Scrooge's money
bin is on the corner of a
>street. There is a certain level of inconsistency
that is accepted by
>readers.
You may be refering to stories like "The Pixilated
Parrot" or "Letter to Santa", which shows Donald
getting out of Scrooge's offices on a street. We see
lots of money in Scrooge's offices but we can not say
it was the money bin. It is a building owned by
Scrooge, and we can imagine he owns several of them in
Duckburg.
Francois
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
>Yes. There are many Barks stories where the bin is
*not* on a hill. There
>are in fact stories by Barks where Scrooge's money
bin is on the corner of a
>street. There is a certain level of inconsistency
that is accepted by
>readers.
You may be refering to stories like "The Pixilated
Parrot" or "Letter to Santa", which shows Donald
getting out of Scrooge's offices on a street. We see
lots of money in Scrooge's offices but we can not say
it was the money bin. It is a building owned by
Scrooge, and we can imagine he owns several of them in
Duckburg.
Francois
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Fluks, H.W.
Money bin / consistency
Message 80 -
2002-05-08 at 19:59:41
Fran?ois:
> > Yes. There are many Barks stories where the bin is
> > *not* on a hill.
>
> You may be refering to stories like "The Pixilated
> Parrot" or "Letter to Santa", which shows Donald
> getting out of Scrooge's offices on a street.
And the Gyro one-shot stories, for instance.
And in at least half of the Uncle Scrooge stories, the bin is in an open
field, but *not* on a hill.
> We see
> lots of money in Scrooge's offices but we can not say
> it was the money bin. It is a building owned by
> Scrooge, and we can imagine he owns several of them in
> Duckburg.
Sure. But then we will find inconsistencies in the stories where Scrooge
says he loses *all* his money, when the bin is attacked (or moved).
In other words: trying to find 100% consistency is pointless. Unless the
trying is fun on its own, of course.
(Rule number 1: any other rule can be violated if it's fun to do so.)
> Based on how you imagine Barks viewed his stories
> (that the location of the story is anywhere, and that
> the story time-line is the "present"), you try to
> recreate these original ideas by changing elements of
> the story so that they fit with your time-line (2000s)
> and your location (Netherlands).
>
> I think this is a wrong approach!
Maybe. It's one of the possible approaches. My problem (and the problem of
many other Disney comics readers) is that I grew up with "mutilated" Disney
comics. I grew up with money being yellow. With Scrooge being called
"Dagobert". With a big F-sign on his bin. I have read and loved the stories
in that form for decades, before I learned about the originals.
This is what I would call "local tradition". It is the result of many
decisions in the past by publishers, translators, etc. Maybe you think these
decisions were wrong. But maybe the Dutch children would never have read
these Disney comics if they would have been literal translations of the
original. And then people like me would never even have heard of the work of
Barks.
The problem that the current editors are facing, is: should they continue
their local tradition, or should they make faithful translations? If they do
the latter, they take the risk that many children turn away from Disney
comics because they are not "what they should be". (Children don't care very
much about the faithfulness of a translation.)
> So the only way to "recreate" the feeling of the story
> as Barks intended it is I think by making the most
> faithful translation as possible (changing no name, no
> location etc.) and have an idea of how was California
> in the 40s and 50s (Barks' environment) was. This []
> can be done with any other author's work.
Other foreign literature for *children* is also translated with name
changes, etc. Like Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. And A.A. Milne's
Winnie the Pooh (Winnie de Poeh). I think we can't expect Dutch children to
read books (for entertainment) when the main characters have unpronounceable
names like "Scrooge" or "Gearloose".
("Mickey" has been accepted, though. Probably because of the movies, TV
shows, and merchandising. Originally, he had the Dutch name "Mikkie".)
> Picsou doesn't change Barks' stories. It is I think
> the most faithful translation of these stories in
> French.
OK. When you wrote that they mention Calisota several times, I thought you
meant they were putting that name into Barks stories (where that name was
not in the original).
> today Barks is recognized
> as one of the best comic artists ever and readers want
> to read his stories, not a subjective, and often bad
> "adaptation" by unknown writers.
I wonder how many readers want to. Most hard-core Barks fans will want to
read his work in the original (American) language. Most other people will
want to read the stories in their own language, and with the local
traditions they are used to.
For instance, for German Barks readers, the translations/adaptations by
Erika Fuchs are highly appreciated. She is an counter-example of your phrase
"bad, by unknown writers". (Maybe the French adaptations have been much
worse than the Dutch and German ones?)
--Harry.
Harry Fluks, Leidschendam, The Netherlands
> > Yes. There are many Barks stories where the bin is
> > *not* on a hill.
>
> You may be refering to stories like "The Pixilated
> Parrot" or "Letter to Santa", which shows Donald
> getting out of Scrooge's offices on a street.
And the Gyro one-shot stories, for instance.
And in at least half of the Uncle Scrooge stories, the bin is in an open
field, but *not* on a hill.
> We see
> lots of money in Scrooge's offices but we can not say
> it was the money bin. It is a building owned by
> Scrooge, and we can imagine he owns several of them in
> Duckburg.
Sure. But then we will find inconsistencies in the stories where Scrooge
says he loses *all* his money, when the bin is attacked (or moved).
In other words: trying to find 100% consistency is pointless. Unless the
trying is fun on its own, of course.
(Rule number 1: any other rule can be violated if it's fun to do so.)
> Based on how you imagine Barks viewed his stories
> (that the location of the story is anywhere, and that
> the story time-line is the "present"), you try to
> recreate these original ideas by changing elements of
> the story so that they fit with your time-line (2000s)
> and your location (Netherlands).
>
> I think this is a wrong approach!
Maybe. It's one of the possible approaches. My problem (and the problem of
many other Disney comics readers) is that I grew up with "mutilated" Disney
comics. I grew up with money being yellow. With Scrooge being called
"Dagobert". With a big F-sign on his bin. I have read and loved the stories
in that form for decades, before I learned about the originals.
This is what I would call "local tradition". It is the result of many
decisions in the past by publishers, translators, etc. Maybe you think these
decisions were wrong. But maybe the Dutch children would never have read
these Disney comics if they would have been literal translations of the
original. And then people like me would never even have heard of the work of
Barks.
The problem that the current editors are facing, is: should they continue
their local tradition, or should they make faithful translations? If they do
the latter, they take the risk that many children turn away from Disney
comics because they are not "what they should be". (Children don't care very
much about the faithfulness of a translation.)
> So the only way to "recreate" the feeling of the story
> as Barks intended it is I think by making the most
> faithful translation as possible (changing no name, no
> location etc.) and have an idea of how was California
> in the 40s and 50s (Barks' environment) was. This []
> can be done with any other author's work.
Other foreign literature for *children* is also translated with name
changes, etc. Like Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. And A.A. Milne's
Winnie the Pooh (Winnie de Poeh). I think we can't expect Dutch children to
read books (for entertainment) when the main characters have unpronounceable
names like "Scrooge" or "Gearloose".
("Mickey" has been accepted, though. Probably because of the movies, TV
shows, and merchandising. Originally, he had the Dutch name "Mikkie".)
> Picsou doesn't change Barks' stories. It is I think
> the most faithful translation of these stories in
> French.
OK. When you wrote that they mention Calisota several times, I thought you
meant they were putting that name into Barks stories (where that name was
not in the original).
> today Barks is recognized
> as one of the best comic artists ever and readers want
> to read his stories, not a subjective, and often bad
> "adaptation" by unknown writers.
I wonder how many readers want to. Most hard-core Barks fans will want to
read his work in the original (American) language. Most other people will
want to read the stories in their own language, and with the local
traditions they are used to.
For instance, for German Barks readers, the translations/adaptations by
Erika Fuchs are highly appreciated. She is an counter-example of your phrase
"bad, by unknown writers". (Maybe the French adaptations have been much
worse than the Dutch and German ones?)
--Harry.
Harry Fluks, Leidschendam, The Netherlands
Timo Ronkainen
Cover for "Gyro's First Invention
Message 81 -
2002-05-08 at 21:08:34
>From: "Sigvald Grøsfjeld jr." <sigvald4 at yahoo.no>
>the cover for AA&Co #19/2002
>seems to be flipped compared to its counterparts in
>Norway, Sweden and Finland.
>And what version is correct?
Norway, Sweden and Finland. You'll notice it when you see the D.U.C.K.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://welcome.to/ankistit
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>the cover for AA&Co #19/2002
>seems to be flipped compared to its counterparts in
>Norway, Sweden and Finland.
>And what version is correct?
Norway, Sweden and Finland. You'll notice it when you see the D.U.C.K.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://welcome.to/ankistit
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Ari Seppi
Translations
Message 82 -
2002-05-09 at 00:07:17
Harry:
>(Rule number 1: any other rule can be violated if it's fun to do so.)
Nice rule, should be adapted to many rule books. :-)
>This is what I would call "local tradition". It is the result of many
>decisions in the past by publishers, translators, etc. Maybe you think these
>decisions were wrong. But maybe the Dutch children would never have read
>these Disney comics if they would have been literal translations of the
>original. And then people like me would never even have heard of the work
>of Barks.
I agree. Translation's most important function is to work, the
faithfulness comes second. But of course, "to work" is very
hard to define, it is some kind of combination of traditions,
intuition and pure luck.
In some countries like Italy and Greece the dollars (to take
this example) apparently worked in Disney comics, but it
is still hard to say if they had worked in some other
countries.
>For instance, for German Barks readers, the translations/adaptations by
>Erika Fuchs are highly appreciated. She is an counter-example of your
>phrase "bad, by unknown writers". (Maybe the French adaptations have been
>much worse than the Dutch and German ones?)
As mentioned in earlier discussions, the Finnish translations
are highly appreciated too. They are almost as sacred as Barks
stories themselves. This raises an interesting question as well:
What about the changes to the original, loved and adored,
translations?
Last weekend I was listening a speech by a fantasy literature
translator. She said that as language develops the translations
age and should be revised. As an example she used Lord of
the Rings (to put it on the right scale for non-Finns: that
translation is one of the most highly respected works of the
history of the Finnish translated literature, "even better than
the original" say some).
Both Tolkien and Barks translations have the same problem
when it comes to revising them: should they be revised and
if so, does anyone dare to do it.
--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Winnie the Pooh is my great guru.
>(Rule number 1: any other rule can be violated if it's fun to do so.)
Nice rule, should be adapted to many rule books. :-)
>This is what I would call "local tradition". It is the result of many
>decisions in the past by publishers, translators, etc. Maybe you think these
>decisions were wrong. But maybe the Dutch children would never have read
>these Disney comics if they would have been literal translations of the
>original. And then people like me would never even have heard of the work
>of Barks.
I agree. Translation's most important function is to work, the
faithfulness comes second. But of course, "to work" is very
hard to define, it is some kind of combination of traditions,
intuition and pure luck.
In some countries like Italy and Greece the dollars (to take
this example) apparently worked in Disney comics, but it
is still hard to say if they had worked in some other
countries.
>For instance, for German Barks readers, the translations/adaptations by
>Erika Fuchs are highly appreciated. She is an counter-example of your
>phrase "bad, by unknown writers". (Maybe the French adaptations have been
>much worse than the Dutch and German ones?)
As mentioned in earlier discussions, the Finnish translations
are highly appreciated too. They are almost as sacred as Barks
stories themselves. This raises an interesting question as well:
What about the changes to the original, loved and adored,
translations?
Last weekend I was listening a speech by a fantasy literature
translator. She said that as language develops the translations
age and should be revised. As an example she used Lord of
the Rings (to put it on the right scale for non-Finns: that
translation is one of the most highly respected works of the
history of the Finnish translated literature, "even better than
the original" say some).
Both Tolkien and Barks translations have the same problem
when it comes to revising them: should they be revised and
if so, does anyone dare to do it.
--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Winnie the Pooh is my great guru.
Francois Willot
Picsou translations
Message 83 -
2002-05-09 at 01:41:33
Harry:
>> today Barks is recognized as one of the best comic
artists ever and readers want
>> to read his stories, not a subjective, and often
bad
>> "adaptation" by unknown writers.
>
>I wonder how many readers want to. Most hard-core
Barks fans will want to
>read his work in the original (American) language.
Most other people will
>want to read the stories in their own language, and
with the local
>traditions they are used to.
That's part of the "Picsou education". They explain
how great an author Barks is, why Don Rosa is refering
to this or that in his stories, when Barks created his
characters, and so on. Not long articles aimed to
Barks freaks, but small ones that the average reader
has a chance to read.
It's the use of a faithful translation that you can
read Barks in your own language. Except for things
like poetry, I usually think that people who prefer to
read an author in the original language are snob. In
Barks' case there is a good reason: the changes are
very important in most countries' translations. With
Picsou, people can skip English and loose very little.
>For instance, for German Barks readers, the
translations/adaptations by
>Erika Fuchs are highly appreciated. She is an
counter-example of your phrase
>"bad, by unknown writers". (Maybe the French
adaptations have been much
>worse than the Dutch and German ones?)
Maybe. Of course if you are able to make something
better or even as good as Barks, why not, but I know I
would be annoyed by having those "wrong versions". And
if you're able to do something as good as Barks, why
not make your own stories?
>This is what I would call "local tradition". It is
the result of many
>decisions in the past by publishers, translators,
etc. Maybe you think these
>decisions were wrong. But maybe the Dutch children
would never have read
>these Disney comics if they would have been literal
translations of the
>original. And then people like me would never even
have heard of the work of
>Barks.
So you think that adaptating a story to local
traditions is a good thing because it helps getting
closer to the readers. In Barks' case I sincerely
doubt it, although this is only my impression, and it
would be hard to predict what woud have happened if
the Dutch had made faithful translations from the
beginning.
But note that: 1. AFAIK there are not so many elements
in Barks' stories that are only understandable in
America. It seems to me that most of the plot and
situations are "universal". The dollar as a symbol of
money is, also, universal. 2. Many comics are set in
other locations and different times, and are very
popular among children. I remember having read "Trick
or Treat" while not knowing anything about Halloween,
which didn't exist in France at the time, and I still
enjoyed the story.
>The problem that the current editors are facing, is:
should they continue
>their local tradition, or should they make faithful
translations? If they do
>the latter, they take the risk that many children
turn away from Disney
>comics because they are not "what they should be".
(Children don't care very
>much about the faithfulness of a translation.)
They don't care, but will they turn away if they see
the dollar symbol instead of a F? No, no, no! I think
the Ducth editors are giving themself extra work for
nothing.
Why not explaining them that the euro was an occasion
to correct their mistakes? that's what Picsou did.
>Other foreign literature for *children* is also
translated with name
>changes, etc. Like Lewis Carroll's Alice in
Wonderland. And A.A. Milne's
>Winnie the Pooh (Winnie de Poeh). I think we can't
expect Dutch children to
>read books (for entertainment) when the main
characters have unpronounceable
>names like "Scrooge" or "Gearloose".
Did they translate "Scrooge" in Mickey's Christmas
carol? In France, they did not, although the name is
unpronouncable (but after a few minutes you are able
to pronounce it even when you don't know English).
>When you wrote that they mention Calisota several
times, I thought you
>meant they were putting that name into Barks stories
(where that name was
>not in the original).
I see. No, they just publish Barks stories and the
Rosa ones that refer to them in the same issue.
Explaining the cross-references without trying to make
both visions consistent.
Ari:
>Both Tolkien and Barks translations have the same
>problem when it comes to revising them: should they
>be revised and if so, does anyone dare to do it.
But what revision would you want? Replacing phones by
Finnish celular ones?...
I have no problem to read Francois Villon in the
original which has more than 500 years. (I of course
like his work since his name is so close to mine).
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com
>> today Barks is recognized as one of the best comic
artists ever and readers want
>> to read his stories, not a subjective, and often
bad
>> "adaptation" by unknown writers.
>
>I wonder how many readers want to. Most hard-core
Barks fans will want to
>read his work in the original (American) language.
Most other people will
>want to read the stories in their own language, and
with the local
>traditions they are used to.
That's part of the "Picsou education". They explain
how great an author Barks is, why Don Rosa is refering
to this or that in his stories, when Barks created his
characters, and so on. Not long articles aimed to
Barks freaks, but small ones that the average reader
has a chance to read.
It's the use of a faithful translation that you can
read Barks in your own language. Except for things
like poetry, I usually think that people who prefer to
read an author in the original language are snob. In
Barks' case there is a good reason: the changes are
very important in most countries' translations. With
Picsou, people can skip English and loose very little.
>For instance, for German Barks readers, the
translations/adaptations by
>Erika Fuchs are highly appreciated. She is an
counter-example of your phrase
>"bad, by unknown writers". (Maybe the French
adaptations have been much
>worse than the Dutch and German ones?)
Maybe. Of course if you are able to make something
better or even as good as Barks, why not, but I know I
would be annoyed by having those "wrong versions". And
if you're able to do something as good as Barks, why
not make your own stories?
>This is what I would call "local tradition". It is
the result of many
>decisions in the past by publishers, translators,
etc. Maybe you think these
>decisions were wrong. But maybe the Dutch children
would never have read
>these Disney comics if they would have been literal
translations of the
>original. And then people like me would never even
have heard of the work of
>Barks.
So you think that adaptating a story to local
traditions is a good thing because it helps getting
closer to the readers. In Barks' case I sincerely
doubt it, although this is only my impression, and it
would be hard to predict what woud have happened if
the Dutch had made faithful translations from the
beginning.
But note that: 1. AFAIK there are not so many elements
in Barks' stories that are only understandable in
America. It seems to me that most of the plot and
situations are "universal". The dollar as a symbol of
money is, also, universal. 2. Many comics are set in
other locations and different times, and are very
popular among children. I remember having read "Trick
or Treat" while not knowing anything about Halloween,
which didn't exist in France at the time, and I still
enjoyed the story.
>The problem that the current editors are facing, is:
should they continue
>their local tradition, or should they make faithful
translations? If they do
>the latter, they take the risk that many children
turn away from Disney
>comics because they are not "what they should be".
(Children don't care very
>much about the faithfulness of a translation.)
They don't care, but will they turn away if they see
the dollar symbol instead of a F? No, no, no! I think
the Ducth editors are giving themself extra work for
nothing.
Why not explaining them that the euro was an occasion
to correct their mistakes? that's what Picsou did.
>Other foreign literature for *children* is also
translated with name
>changes, etc. Like Lewis Carroll's Alice in
Wonderland. And A.A. Milne's
>Winnie the Pooh (Winnie de Poeh). I think we can't
expect Dutch children to
>read books (for entertainment) when the main
characters have unpronounceable
>names like "Scrooge" or "Gearloose".
Did they translate "Scrooge" in Mickey's Christmas
carol? In France, they did not, although the name is
unpronouncable (but after a few minutes you are able
to pronounce it even when you don't know English).
>When you wrote that they mention Calisota several
times, I thought you
>meant they were putting that name into Barks stories
(where that name was
>not in the original).
I see. No, they just publish Barks stories and the
Rosa ones that refer to them in the same issue.
Explaining the cross-references without trying to make
both visions consistent.
Ari:
>Both Tolkien and Barks translations have the same
>problem when it comes to revising them: should they
>be revised and if so, does anyone dare to do it.
But what revision would you want? Replacing phones by
Finnish celular ones?...
I have no problem to read Francois Villon in the
original which has more than 500 years. (I of course
like his work since his name is so close to mine).
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com
Rob Klein
Danish Donaldism/Barks translations
Message 84 -
2002-05-09 at 05:07:34
For A.C.: Harry's suggestion that you contact Freddy Milton and Benni Boedker
(Nielsen)is worth heeding, as, perhaps they could be future contributors to
your efforts. However, they both planned the Barks Tribute Issue (Solo-Haefte
Nr. 25 (Jubilaeumsnummer)) as their last issue. They felt that with his life's
passing, and the passing of his 100th anniversary, their work was done, and it
was a good time to quit. As a long-time close friend of both of them, and a
contributor to that issue, I got the feeling that they both felt like moving on
with their lives. Benni should now be very busy with his school teaching
career. He was also very interested in many types of fine literature (not just
comics). He was (and I hope, still is) a serious literature critic (in
newspapers and magazines). I cannot speak for him, but I imagine he will save
more time in the future (as in the most recent years)to critique other forms of
literature, than for comics.
Freddy gave me the idea that he wanted to pass the baton to someone else, in
terms of the responsibilities of putting a fanzine together periodically.
However, he didn't say he would be averse to contributing again from time to
time. You would do well to contact him. Also Paw Mathiassen, the ex-publisher
of Carl Barks & Co. was also a big Barks fan. You may want to contact him, as
well.
Regarding translations of Barks: I don't have an opinion on what they should do
in most countries, but I do think it would be a shame to reprint the Barks
stories with new text to fit the new language spoken by young people in
Germany. Erika Fuchs did a brilliant job putting her heart and soul and
expansive knowledge of language, history and culture into her translations. Her
work added such a layer of richness and tradition into the German printings
that they made a big impact on the generations who read them in the 1950s,
1960s and 1970s; and I see them also continuing to leave a big impression on
the readers of the 1980s, '90s, and even those of today. I would hate to see
upcoming child readers miss out on her wonderful work, just to get "current
language" versions. If those readers want to get the "feel" of the original
Barks, they can read Barks in English in Gladstone versions, Barks Library, and
other printings (they will probably all be available on the internet
eventually. During the 1960s and 1970s, I met very few Germans who read
English very well. But, many of those who did, had originally made a determined
effort to learn English for the express purpose of reading Barks in his
original language. I think that being introduced to Barks with Fuchs' text
only enhances the curiosity to read the original version and compare.
Having read and collected Dutch Disney comics as both a child and adult, I
would not want the names of the characters changed to match the original
American ones. A change in mid stream is too wrenching for the readers on the
cusp. It does seem strange that if Duckstad is reasonably close to Amsterdam
(as is indisputible in several non-Barks stories), and is clearly within a
several hour auto trip from a dry desert (Southeast Spain, with US Cowboys
and "American Indians"?)the reader has a problem. But it is nice to have
Zinterclaas carried into Amsterdam Harbour and Donald and the kids not to have
taken a quick superjet airflight from USA to beat him there. However, it does
seem that having the Euro come in is a great chance to start over, at least
with Calisota's money. I think Scrooge should have the Euro sign on his Bin
for all current scenes. For "flashback scenes" that take place before the
introduction of the Euro to each individual nation, the original sign used
should be continued (e.g. the Florin F for Gulden in Holland, etc.).
Rob Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
(Nielsen)is worth heeding, as, perhaps they could be future contributors to
your efforts. However, they both planned the Barks Tribute Issue (Solo-Haefte
Nr. 25 (Jubilaeumsnummer)) as their last issue. They felt that with his life's
passing, and the passing of his 100th anniversary, their work was done, and it
was a good time to quit. As a long-time close friend of both of them, and a
contributor to that issue, I got the feeling that they both felt like moving on
with their lives. Benni should now be very busy with his school teaching
career. He was also very interested in many types of fine literature (not just
comics). He was (and I hope, still is) a serious literature critic (in
newspapers and magazines). I cannot speak for him, but I imagine he will save
more time in the future (as in the most recent years)to critique other forms of
literature, than for comics.
Freddy gave me the idea that he wanted to pass the baton to someone else, in
terms of the responsibilities of putting a fanzine together periodically.
However, he didn't say he would be averse to contributing again from time to
time. You would do well to contact him. Also Paw Mathiassen, the ex-publisher
of Carl Barks & Co. was also a big Barks fan. You may want to contact him, as
well.
Regarding translations of Barks: I don't have an opinion on what they should do
in most countries, but I do think it would be a shame to reprint the Barks
stories with new text to fit the new language spoken by young people in
Germany. Erika Fuchs did a brilliant job putting her heart and soul and
expansive knowledge of language, history and culture into her translations. Her
work added such a layer of richness and tradition into the German printings
that they made a big impact on the generations who read them in the 1950s,
1960s and 1970s; and I see them also continuing to leave a big impression on
the readers of the 1980s, '90s, and even those of today. I would hate to see
upcoming child readers miss out on her wonderful work, just to get "current
language" versions. If those readers want to get the "feel" of the original
Barks, they can read Barks in English in Gladstone versions, Barks Library, and
other printings (they will probably all be available on the internet
eventually. During the 1960s and 1970s, I met very few Germans who read
English very well. But, many of those who did, had originally made a determined
effort to learn English for the express purpose of reading Barks in his
original language. I think that being introduced to Barks with Fuchs' text
only enhances the curiosity to read the original version and compare.
Having read and collected Dutch Disney comics as both a child and adult, I
would not want the names of the characters changed to match the original
American ones. A change in mid stream is too wrenching for the readers on the
cusp. It does seem strange that if Duckstad is reasonably close to Amsterdam
(as is indisputible in several non-Barks stories), and is clearly within a
several hour auto trip from a dry desert (Southeast Spain, with US Cowboys
and "American Indians"?)the reader has a problem. But it is nice to have
Zinterclaas carried into Amsterdam Harbour and Donald and the kids not to have
taken a quick superjet airflight from USA to beat him there. However, it does
seem that having the Euro come in is a great chance to start over, at least
with Calisota's money. I think Scrooge should have the Euro sign on his Bin
for all current scenes. For "flashback scenes" that take place before the
introduction of the Euro to each individual nation, the original sign used
should be continued (e.g. the Florin F for Gulden in Holland, etc.).
Rob Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
Fr. Franz
Scrooge McDuck's Western Money Bin
Message 85 -
2002-05-09 at 05:42:40
The story "Hum On the Range" Uncle Donald and His Nephews Dude Ranch, No.
52, 1961 (A Dell Giant) mentions Scrooge's Western Money Bin, which is
underground in an unspecified state. One panel shows the inside of the money
bin.
Does anyone know if there were every any other references to this Western
Money Bin?
Roger A. Budnick
ststephensmf at nls.net
52, 1961 (A Dell Giant) mentions Scrooge's Western Money Bin, which is
underground in an unspecified state. One panel shows the inside of the money
bin.
Does anyone know if there were every any other references to this Western
Money Bin?
Roger A. Budnick
ststephensmf at nls.net
Ari Seppi
Translations
Message 86 -
2002-05-09 at 09:46:05
Fran?ois:
>Ari:
> >Both Tolkien and Barks translations have the same
> >problem when it comes to revising them: should they
> >be revised and if so, does anyone dare to do it.
>But what revision would you want? Replacing phones by
>Finnish celular ones?...
Yes, phones should be replaced by Nokia cellulars in all
Disney comics! (I was joking, put the hatchets down!)
But replacing phones isn't actually a translative revision.
>I have no problem to read Francois Villon in the
>original which has more than 500 years.
But isn't he a poet who wrote his own poems and
didn't translate them from other languages?
I didn't, of course, mean that the originals should
be revised, I was pondering if the translations
need changing.
>(I of course
>like his work since his name is so close to mine).
:-)
Roy:
>Regarding translations of Barks: I don't have an opinion on what they
>should do
>in most countries, but I do think it would be a shame to reprint the Barks
>stories with new text to fit the new language spoken by young people in
>Germany.
Well, naturally you are right: new translations shouldn't be
made just to fit the new language if the original translation
is understandable and the meanings of the words haven't
changed.
But as I said before: I think translation's most important
function is to work. If the old translations work well, there
is no reason to change anything. And even if some
changes are made, there is no reason not to also print
the older translation versions if they are considered works
of art of their own.
On the other hand, comics translations are different
from other types of literature translations. They have
pictures to explain the text so there may not be a need
to change them so much or at all - I don't know.
--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Winnie the Pooh is my great guru.
>Ari:
> >Both Tolkien and Barks translations have the same
> >problem when it comes to revising them: should they
> >be revised and if so, does anyone dare to do it.
>But what revision would you want? Replacing phones by
>Finnish celular ones?...
Yes, phones should be replaced by Nokia cellulars in all
Disney comics! (I was joking, put the hatchets down!)
But replacing phones isn't actually a translative revision.
>I have no problem to read Francois Villon in the
>original which has more than 500 years.
But isn't he a poet who wrote his own poems and
didn't translate them from other languages?
I didn't, of course, mean that the originals should
be revised, I was pondering if the translations
need changing.
>(I of course
>like his work since his name is so close to mine).
:-)
Roy:
>Regarding translations of Barks: I don't have an opinion on what they
>should do
>in most countries, but I do think it would be a shame to reprint the Barks
>stories with new text to fit the new language spoken by young people in
>Germany.
Well, naturally you are right: new translations shouldn't be
made just to fit the new language if the original translation
is understandable and the meanings of the words haven't
changed.
But as I said before: I think translation's most important
function is to work. If the old translations work well, there
is no reason to change anything. And even if some
changes are made, there is no reason not to also print
the older translation versions if they are considered works
of art of their own.
On the other hand, comics translations are different
from other types of literature translations. They have
pictures to explain the text so there may not be a need
to change them so much or at all - I don't know.
--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Winnie the Pooh is my great guru.
Archontis Pantsios
MIKY MAOUS et al
Message 87 -
2002-05-09 at 13:31:01
Fellow Quackeroos:
The most recent crop of Greek Disneys (with a slight delay due to the
celebration of Greek Orthodox Easter):
1) MIKY MAOUS #1867, April 26, 2002 (Special "70 Years with Goofy" issue;
196 pages--cover price: 2.35 euro)
a) Goofy in "Il Pippo furioso", from "Topolino" #2354, 2001 (47 pages in 2
parts). Script: Fabio Michelini; Art: Roberto Vian
b) Goofy in "The Heroic Ancestors", 42 pages. Story code and creators
unknown.
c) Goofy in "Il genio nell' ombra", from "Topolino" #2296, 1999 (30 pages).
Script: Tito Faraci; Art: Silvia Ziche
d) Goofy in "Jinxed Birthday", S-77157, 15 pages. Script & art: The Disney
Studio
e) Goofy in "The Big Catch", S-78057, 15 pages. Script & art: The Disney
Studio
f) Goofy in "The Museum Adventure", WDC&S #460, 11 pages. Script: unknown;
Art: Paul Murry
2) ALMANAKO #135, May 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Indiana Goofy in "Il cioccofelix", from "Topolino" #2368, 2001 (30
pages). Script: Bruno Sarda; Art: Emilio Urbano
b) Paperinik in "Il compagno Gnuk", from "Paperinik" #89, 2001 (20 pages).
Script: Nino Russo; Art: Luca Bonardi
c) Paperinik in "Divieto di sosta", from "Topolino" #2331, 2000 (10 pages).
Script: Francesco Artibani; Art: Alessandro Barbucci
3) MINNI #68, May 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Minnie Mouse in "The Aroma of Spring", from "Minni" #84, 23 pages.
Script: Giustina Porcelli; Art: Roberto Vian
b) Daisy Duck in "Paperspot: Chi si accontenta...", from "Topolino" #2299,
1999 (10 pages). Script: Caterina Mognato; Art: Roberta Migheli
c) Brigitta McBridge in "Le occasioni favorevole", from "Topolino" #2372,
2001 (31 pages). Script: Bruno Concina; Art: Maurizio Amendola
"Til next time,
Archontis
--------------------------------------------------
Archontis L. Pantsios, Ph.D.
Assistant Academic Dean & Professor of Economics
The American College of Thessaloniki
Thessaloniki--GREECE
Phone #: +30-310-398228
The most recent crop of Greek Disneys (with a slight delay due to the
celebration of Greek Orthodox Easter):
1) MIKY MAOUS #1867, April 26, 2002 (Special "70 Years with Goofy" issue;
196 pages--cover price: 2.35 euro)
a) Goofy in "Il Pippo furioso", from "Topolino" #2354, 2001 (47 pages in 2
parts). Script: Fabio Michelini; Art: Roberto Vian
b) Goofy in "The Heroic Ancestors", 42 pages. Story code and creators
unknown.
c) Goofy in "Il genio nell' ombra", from "Topolino" #2296, 1999 (30 pages).
Script: Tito Faraci; Art: Silvia Ziche
d) Goofy in "Jinxed Birthday", S-77157, 15 pages. Script & art: The Disney
Studio
e) Goofy in "The Big Catch", S-78057, 15 pages. Script & art: The Disney
Studio
f) Goofy in "The Museum Adventure", WDC&S #460, 11 pages. Script: unknown;
Art: Paul Murry
2) ALMANAKO #135, May 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Indiana Goofy in "Il cioccofelix", from "Topolino" #2368, 2001 (30
pages). Script: Bruno Sarda; Art: Emilio Urbano
b) Paperinik in "Il compagno Gnuk", from "Paperinik" #89, 2001 (20 pages).
Script: Nino Russo; Art: Luca Bonardi
c) Paperinik in "Divieto di sosta", from "Topolino" #2331, 2000 (10 pages).
Script: Francesco Artibani; Art: Alessandro Barbucci
3) MINNI #68, May 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Minnie Mouse in "The Aroma of Spring", from "Minni" #84, 23 pages.
Script: Giustina Porcelli; Art: Roberto Vian
b) Daisy Duck in "Paperspot: Chi si accontenta...", from "Topolino" #2299,
1999 (10 pages). Script: Caterina Mognato; Art: Roberta Migheli
c) Brigitta McBridge in "Le occasioni favorevole", from "Topolino" #2372,
2001 (31 pages). Script: Bruno Concina; Art: Maurizio Amendola
"Til next time,
Archontis
--------------------------------------------------
Archontis L. Pantsios, Ph.D.
Assistant Academic Dean & Professor of Economics
The American College of Thessaloniki
Thessaloniki--GREECE
Phone #: +30-310-398228
DGE
Cover for "Gyro's First Invention
Message 88 -
2002-05-09 at 14:06:56
Hey Sigvald!
>When looking at the homepage for Danish Anders And &
>Co I discovered that the cover for AA&Co #19/2002
>seems to be flipped compared to its counterparts in
>Norway, Sweden and Finland.
>
>Do anyone know why this has happened?
>
>And what version is correct?
Every version but Denmark is correct.
I believe the switch was made so that a UPC symbol at the bottom
left of the cover, which cannot be moved in Denmark, would block as little
picture information as possible. Better to block off part of Donald's chin
than almost all of Dewey and Louie (which the UPC symbol effectively did in
Norway and Sweden).
>And, by the way, in the facsimile in the back of DD&Co
>#18/2002 it looks like there is two helpers or a
>double helper in Gyro's hand. Do any one know more
>about this?
Here's an educated guess about what happened:
When first preparing the DD&Co 19 cover, Norway began to rework it
in Photoshop: in an effort to take Helper out of Gyro's hands, move him just
a little to the left, and put him behind the magazine's logo, peeking up
over the top. I guess someone thought that would look cool.
Then they realized they preferred the original version after all.
So they went to work with Photoshop again, and pasted Helper back
into his proper spot. However, a "phantom" second Helper was still left
lingering behind the logo, just a little to the left, for a while, until
they noticed the error and erased him.
Before doing that, they had already made the facsimile for the back
of DD&Co 18, so the error was preserved for posterity.
I have *no* idea if this is really what happened, but it's all I can
imagine. The original Don Rosa cover shows only one Helper, in case anyone
wonders.
David Gerstein
>When looking at the homepage for Danish Anders And &
>Co I discovered that the cover for AA&Co #19/2002
>seems to be flipped compared to its counterparts in
>Norway, Sweden and Finland.
>
>Do anyone know why this has happened?
>
>And what version is correct?
Every version but Denmark is correct.
I believe the switch was made so that a UPC symbol at the bottom
left of the cover, which cannot be moved in Denmark, would block as little
picture information as possible. Better to block off part of Donald's chin
than almost all of Dewey and Louie (which the UPC symbol effectively did in
Norway and Sweden).
>And, by the way, in the facsimile in the back of DD&Co
>#18/2002 it looks like there is two helpers or a
>double helper in Gyro's hand. Do any one know more
>about this?
Here's an educated guess about what happened:
When first preparing the DD&Co 19 cover, Norway began to rework it
in Photoshop: in an effort to take Helper out of Gyro's hands, move him just
a little to the left, and put him behind the magazine's logo, peeking up
over the top. I guess someone thought that would look cool.
Then they realized they preferred the original version after all.
So they went to work with Photoshop again, and pasted Helper back
into his proper spot. However, a "phantom" second Helper was still left
lingering behind the logo, just a little to the left, for a while, until
they noticed the error and erased him.
Before doing that, they had already made the facsimile for the back
of DD&Co 18, so the error was preserved for posterity.
I have *no* idea if this is really what happened, but it's all I can
imagine. The original Don Rosa cover shows only one Helper, in case anyone
wonders.
David Gerstein
Don Rosa
DCML digest #920
Message 89 -
2002-05-09 at 19:17:06
From: Thomas Pryds Lauritsen <thomas at duckburg.dk>
>>>>>>>Don Rosa:
Some time ago I received a mail from someone who thinks he has found the
D.U.C.K. dedication in "The Universal Solvent". However I not sure
whether this is it or not. According to this person it should be placed
in the shadow from the box with Abandoned Projects. Some darker parts in
the shadow should make out the D.U.C.K.
It should be, yeah, but it's not. More than even other covers or splashes
where my dedication does not appear, that one puzzles me especially because
I have such a vivid memory of putting it in there... but trust me, it ain't
there. I figure it was there in the pencil art, but then I inked over it
without noticing it again.
But *what* "shadow from the box"? I don't see a shadow. The box is casting a
shadow on the wall in back of it, but that's all but a corner hidden
*behind* the box.
Yeah, that's it! The dedication is on the wall in back of the box. But I
drew the box in front of it so now you can't see it!
From: Jussi Mantere <jmantere at niksula.hut.fi>
>>>Actually this brought a question in my mind: Don, does it ever bother you
(or even puzzle you) to be considered such a "star" and a celebrity at
least here in Finland? Wouldn't you rather be just a normal Mr.
Comic-artist who likes to draw ducks?-)
That is a perceptive question...
Yes, it both bothers me and puzzles me. And yes, I *would* rather have been
just another of the many people who write and draw these comics.
You should have seen how it was in Italy last week. In the 5 years since I
was last there, they actually started using my stories in Italy... my prior
visits to conventions there were due to my work at Gladstone or Egmont which
had been seen only by the collectors and researchers like our pal Luca here.
But now I am known to the general populace in Italy. And they refer to me as
somsortuva "living legend"... *already* (makes me feel old). They print
various collections of my stuff in Italy now... they have done 3 different
annotated collections of the "Lo$", one including all the 'B' chapters. And
I wonder why is this stuff so popular? Sure, it pleases me in one way, but
it also actually embarrasses me because I don't understand it and I wonder
what all those great, great Italian master Disney artists think of me. They
know my art is crude. Look at Cavazanno -- he can draw rings around me, in
37 different styles, design characters and new cartoon universes left and
right.
I look at my art compared to all the *gorgeous* art that fills these comics.
I still wonder why my stories are so popular... I mean, why so wildly more
popular than anything else in these issues... but the unexpected evidence of
that is there from what they tell me and also from what I see when I
sometimes use Google to browse Internet mentions on websites or newsgroups,
even ones not devoted to comics. Discussions on 15 newsgroups, mentions in
over 2,000 websites? I never expected (and certainly did not *plan*) to
become this famous. When I was forced to quit working for Gladstone due to
Disney's policies, I did not think there was a place for me anywhere else in
comics. I mean, I was so sure that the European market would not want me
that I lost a full year before I sent an inquiry to Egmont. Whereas I was
the only American artist who wanted to do this sort of stuff for Gladstone
(rather than something that could potentially pay well), I could see the
fabulous art by *many* artists in the Euro-Disney comics and I knew I did
not fit in there.
But when I finally did start producing stuff for Egmont, I was sure that I
would be lost in the crowd of Egmont art (or just be considered the poor
crude-but-sincere American cousin). But no, that's not how it seemed to turn
out. After just a few years they started putting my name on the covers when
there was a story inside... and now they even put my signature (!) on the
covers of issues with my stories... like "Walt Disney's" signature appears
above the title. On one new "Gyro 50th" edition this week, my signature is
actually *larger* than Disney's! How bizarre that seems to me! Surreal!
And you (being there in Finland) see how my presence will jam shopping malls
and cause people to stand in lines at department or book stores for half a
day just to get a simple signature. There was a Helsinki newspaper article
about general booksignings and personal-appearances a few months back where
they were referring to ME as the national high-water mark for all celebrity
appearances to be measured against. I often think this is all some elaborate
practical joke being played on me, and everyone in Europe is in on it. What
organization!
And the work does not come easy to me... I overwrite everything, making it
far more complex and difficult to construct than it should be; and you can
see by the stiffness of my art that drawing is something that really
requires effort for me... I can't dash it off like the trained cartoonists
can. It really makes me almost sweat blood to slowly draw in my *single*
style while a Cavazanno or a Jippes can whip it out in 37 different styles
in circles around me. And I would have thought that I'd have gotten quicker
in 15 years of practice... but I've actually gotten *slower*... maybe
because I can more and more see the inadequacies of what I'm doing. I work
MUCH too hard at this.
So, to your question... why would this not delight me, even though I never
expected or planned it? Because after 15 years I still can't figure out why
I'm not making any extra money due to that fame! Somebody else is getting
the revenue from those Rosa album series and Rosa hardback books and Rosa
"Lo$" collections. Just today I had to borrow $ from my wife (a teacher) to
pay bills. On one hand, I feel like the luckiest guy in the world, becoming
so famous for doing something that I love so much that I used to do it for
free... for being called the "successor" to my hero (yikes!)... getting to
travel around Europe, treated like a celebrity and meet the NICEST comics
fans and collectors and experts in the world. But on the other hand, I feel
like a world-class CHUMP for being part of a system that few other
cartoonists outside of studios in third-world countries want to have
anything to do with... and the others who do, only do it as a sideline to
their "real" work. You ask if it bothers me. My fame both delights and
frustrates me... I think I'd be happier if it had worked out as I originally
expected, just being "one of the crowd" of Donald Duck/Uncle $crooge artists
and writers, as you suggest. It's a frustration that sorta just builds year
after year as I see *nothing* in the system changing. Yeah... my wife the
teacher retires in two weeks... and that idea seems sooo tempting. I have so
many stories I want to yet tell, but... that seems sooo tempting.
>>>>>>>Don Rosa:
Some time ago I received a mail from someone who thinks he has found the
D.U.C.K. dedication in "The Universal Solvent". However I not sure
whether this is it or not. According to this person it should be placed
in the shadow from the box with Abandoned Projects. Some darker parts in
the shadow should make out the D.U.C.K.
It should be, yeah, but it's not. More than even other covers or splashes
where my dedication does not appear, that one puzzles me especially because
I have such a vivid memory of putting it in there... but trust me, it ain't
there. I figure it was there in the pencil art, but then I inked over it
without noticing it again.
But *what* "shadow from the box"? I don't see a shadow. The box is casting a
shadow on the wall in back of it, but that's all but a corner hidden
*behind* the box.
Yeah, that's it! The dedication is on the wall in back of the box. But I
drew the box in front of it so now you can't see it!
From: Jussi Mantere <jmantere at niksula.hut.fi>
>>>Actually this brought a question in my mind: Don, does it ever bother you
(or even puzzle you) to be considered such a "star" and a celebrity at
least here in Finland? Wouldn't you rather be just a normal Mr.
Comic-artist who likes to draw ducks?-)
That is a perceptive question...
Yes, it both bothers me and puzzles me. And yes, I *would* rather have been
just another of the many people who write and draw these comics.
You should have seen how it was in Italy last week. In the 5 years since I
was last there, they actually started using my stories in Italy... my prior
visits to conventions there were due to my work at Gladstone or Egmont which
had been seen only by the collectors and researchers like our pal Luca here.
But now I am known to the general populace in Italy. And they refer to me as
somsortuva "living legend"... *already* (makes me feel old). They print
various collections of my stuff in Italy now... they have done 3 different
annotated collections of the "Lo$", one including all the 'B' chapters. And
I wonder why is this stuff so popular? Sure, it pleases me in one way, but
it also actually embarrasses me because I don't understand it and I wonder
what all those great, great Italian master Disney artists think of me. They
know my art is crude. Look at Cavazanno -- he can draw rings around me, in
37 different styles, design characters and new cartoon universes left and
right.
I look at my art compared to all the *gorgeous* art that fills these comics.
I still wonder why my stories are so popular... I mean, why so wildly more
popular than anything else in these issues... but the unexpected evidence of
that is there from what they tell me and also from what I see when I
sometimes use Google to browse Internet mentions on websites or newsgroups,
even ones not devoted to comics. Discussions on 15 newsgroups, mentions in
over 2,000 websites? I never expected (and certainly did not *plan*) to
become this famous. When I was forced to quit working for Gladstone due to
Disney's policies, I did not think there was a place for me anywhere else in
comics. I mean, I was so sure that the European market would not want me
that I lost a full year before I sent an inquiry to Egmont. Whereas I was
the only American artist who wanted to do this sort of stuff for Gladstone
(rather than something that could potentially pay well), I could see the
fabulous art by *many* artists in the Euro-Disney comics and I knew I did
not fit in there.
But when I finally did start producing stuff for Egmont, I was sure that I
would be lost in the crowd of Egmont art (or just be considered the poor
crude-but-sincere American cousin). But no, that's not how it seemed to turn
out. After just a few years they started putting my name on the covers when
there was a story inside... and now they even put my signature (!) on the
covers of issues with my stories... like "Walt Disney's" signature appears
above the title. On one new "Gyro 50th" edition this week, my signature is
actually *larger* than Disney's! How bizarre that seems to me! Surreal!
And you (being there in Finland) see how my presence will jam shopping malls
and cause people to stand in lines at department or book stores for half a
day just to get a simple signature. There was a Helsinki newspaper article
about general booksignings and personal-appearances a few months back where
they were referring to ME as the national high-water mark for all celebrity
appearances to be measured against. I often think this is all some elaborate
practical joke being played on me, and everyone in Europe is in on it. What
organization!
And the work does not come easy to me... I overwrite everything, making it
far more complex and difficult to construct than it should be; and you can
see by the stiffness of my art that drawing is something that really
requires effort for me... I can't dash it off like the trained cartoonists
can. It really makes me almost sweat blood to slowly draw in my *single*
style while a Cavazanno or a Jippes can whip it out in 37 different styles
in circles around me. And I would have thought that I'd have gotten quicker
in 15 years of practice... but I've actually gotten *slower*... maybe
because I can more and more see the inadequacies of what I'm doing. I work
MUCH too hard at this.
So, to your question... why would this not delight me, even though I never
expected or planned it? Because after 15 years I still can't figure out why
I'm not making any extra money due to that fame! Somebody else is getting
the revenue from those Rosa album series and Rosa hardback books and Rosa
"Lo$" collections. Just today I had to borrow $ from my wife (a teacher) to
pay bills. On one hand, I feel like the luckiest guy in the world, becoming
so famous for doing something that I love so much that I used to do it for
free... for being called the "successor" to my hero (yikes!)... getting to
travel around Europe, treated like a celebrity and meet the NICEST comics
fans and collectors and experts in the world. But on the other hand, I feel
like a world-class CHUMP for being part of a system that few other
cartoonists outside of studios in third-world countries want to have
anything to do with... and the others who do, only do it as a sideline to
their "real" work. You ask if it bothers me. My fame both delights and
frustrates me... I think I'd be happier if it had worked out as I originally
expected, just being "one of the crowd" of Donald Duck/Uncle $crooge artists
and writers, as you suggest. It's a frustration that sorta just builds year
after year as I see *nothing* in the system changing. Yeah... my wife the
teacher retires in two weeks... and that idea seems sooo tempting. I have so
many stories I want to yet tell, but... that seems sooo tempting.
Sue And Gary Leach
DCML digest, Vol 1 #920 - 11 msgs
Message 90 -
2002-05-10 at 00:25:33
Harry:
> Jippes also inked half a page (from Barks sketches) of the Klondike story.
> That was for one of the first Gladstone albums, so maybe that's about the
> same time? Then it would not be strange for Jippes to do the Gyro Piper
> story too.
Gladstone's founding mandate was to reprint the classics, and that still
went when I signed on. Don Rosa truly was the one who broke the barrier on
Gladstone pursuing new stories, and that was hardly a sure thing at first.
It is these things that make me think it unlikely that Bruce Hamilton would
have asked Daan Jippes to try to make a complete story out of Barks'
fragment before early 1987. That would have been an entirely different
proposition than having him ink four panels that had already been restored
to "Back to the Klondike" in Barks' rough form for the CBL.
But I say this based on my perspective on the matter. The idea of new
stories was being kicked around before the advent of Don Rosa (it always was
a prospect, though initially a very dim one), and "Pied Piper" was a piece
of Barks that might have stirred Bruce to ambitions not strictly keeping
with that early Gladstone vision.
Gary
> Jippes also inked half a page (from Barks sketches) of the Klondike story.
> That was for one of the first Gladstone albums, so maybe that's about the
> same time? Then it would not be strange for Jippes to do the Gyro Piper
> story too.
Gladstone's founding mandate was to reprint the classics, and that still
went when I signed on. Don Rosa truly was the one who broke the barrier on
Gladstone pursuing new stories, and that was hardly a sure thing at first.
It is these things that make me think it unlikely that Bruce Hamilton would
have asked Daan Jippes to try to make a complete story out of Barks'
fragment before early 1987. That would have been an entirely different
proposition than having him ink four panels that had already been restored
to "Back to the Klondike" in Barks' rough form for the CBL.
But I say this based on my perspective on the matter. The idea of new
stories was being kicked around before the advent of Don Rosa (it always was
a prospect, though initially a very dim one), and "Pied Piper" was a piece
of Barks that might have stirred Bruce to ambitions not strictly keeping
with that early Gladstone vision.
Gary