=0AAs a newcomer in this mailing-list I have some fundamental questions=
(at least
for me !)
referring to the German Disney publications 'Micky Maus' and 'Lustige
Taschenbuecher':
Is there any database or similiar on the net (or anywhere else), where =
I can
find for every
issue the stories inside (of course with naming the artists and scenari=
sts)?
Can someone tell me, in what 'Micky Maus'-issues the last Don-Rosa-stor=
ies were
published.
(I got only informations until 'WHADALOTTAJARGON' in the me-known
Rosa-Indices).
Helmut=
Author
Topic: 199807
(382 messages)
Helmut.Friedl1
(No subject)
Message 346 -
1998-07-29 at 20:00:09
Juhana K Kouhia
Treasure of Marco Polo
Message 347 -
1998-07-29 at 20:13:21
>From: "Donald D. Markstein" <(Email removed)>
>
>>a text "shows you can't trust these watches from the workers' paradise!"
>>is changed to "shows you can't trust these cheap watches made by McDuck
>>enterprises".
>
> Is this censorship, or simply a form of
> translation? My guess would be the latter.
English to english translation? No. It is censored.
Juhana
>
>>a text "shows you can't trust these watches from the workers' paradise!"
>>is changed to "shows you can't trust these cheap watches made by McDuck
>>enterprises".
>
> Is this censorship, or simply a form of
> translation? My guess would be the latter.
English to english translation? No. It is censored.
Juhana
Juhana K Kouhia
digitals
Message 348 -
1998-07-29 at 20:48:56
>From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
>
>NO DIGITAL IS *NOT* FOREVER.
Digital copies can be copied without changes. And thus is indeed forever.
>Someone here is converting his family pictures to CD-Rom and I think
>that's a nice idea, but please don't think it logically *replaces* the
>original.
And what about those old 70 rpm records which were recorded to tape
at '60 and destroyed to save room space at record company. Now they have
to make CDs from those tape copies with flotter and wow, and whatever else,
while they could get superior CDs from the original records.
When videos came, photo shops announced "move your 8 mm film collection
to video". I wonder how many destroyed the original 8 mm which are superior
to video.
>> If CB never colorized them, colorization can be added as additional
>> (and optional) layer over the photos.
>
>Great idea and I certainly vote for it. However, it will *never* be
>possible to see Barks' stories as he drew them. Almost all original
>art-work has been thrown away and what we have to live with are
>(what's left of) the reproductions the editor made at the time.
Now that is sad! Did C. Barks the color work too? Only line drawings?
What I have though about CDs are, for example:
1. All panels are stored as line drawings; as much originals as possible,
and rest are reconstructed from the recent materials. BUT, if CB colorized
the stories, then this needs rethinking.
2. I see the recent colorizations might not be that good (I have seen good
ones too), and quality in old ones varies. We could as well colorize the
stories on our own. This solves the problems of scanning colors.
3. Translated texts are put over the originals as images. Hand written
or not. Text images should have an arbitrary and smooth edge such that
even most difficult texts can be replaced. Reader may choose any text
version or even make her own. We could make our own translations.
Since my approach is quite different from the pure illegal copying,
I expect more people would be toward this project than against.
However, this is still illegal because Disney has the rights. Has
anyone ideas how to get Disney involved to this?
Yours,
Juhana
>
>NO DIGITAL IS *NOT* FOREVER.
Digital copies can be copied without changes. And thus is indeed forever.
>Someone here is converting his family pictures to CD-Rom and I think
>that's a nice idea, but please don't think it logically *replaces* the
>original.
And what about those old 70 rpm records which were recorded to tape
at '60 and destroyed to save room space at record company. Now they have
to make CDs from those tape copies with flotter and wow, and whatever else,
while they could get superior CDs from the original records.
When videos came, photo shops announced "move your 8 mm film collection
to video". I wonder how many destroyed the original 8 mm which are superior
to video.
>> If CB never colorized them, colorization can be added as additional
>> (and optional) layer over the photos.
>
>Great idea and I certainly vote for it. However, it will *never* be
>possible to see Barks' stories as he drew them. Almost all original
>art-work has been thrown away and what we have to live with are
>(what's left of) the reproductions the editor made at the time.
Now that is sad! Did C. Barks the color work too? Only line drawings?
What I have though about CDs are, for example:
1. All panels are stored as line drawings; as much originals as possible,
and rest are reconstructed from the recent materials. BUT, if CB colorized
the stories, then this needs rethinking.
2. I see the recent colorizations might not be that good (I have seen good
ones too), and quality in old ones varies. We could as well colorize the
stories on our own. This solves the problems of scanning colors.
3. Translated texts are put over the originals as images. Hand written
or not. Text images should have an arbitrary and smooth edge such that
even most difficult texts can be replaced. Reader may choose any text
version or even make her own. We could make our own translations.
Since my approach is quite different from the pure illegal copying,
I expect more people would be toward this project than against.
However, this is still illegal because Disney has the rights. Has
anyone ideas how to get Disney involved to this?
Yours,
Juhana
Daniel Van Eijmeren
Changing reprints
Message 349 -
1998-07-29 at 21:03:57
DON MARKSTEIN to DAVID GERSTEIN, 23 July 1998:
> Your explanation of the alteration of "Colossus of the Nile" makes
> perfect sense to me, but then, my attitude has always been that if you
> like the original version better, that's okay because it's STILL THERE.
Of course, but what's the use of a comic-book story still existing
somewhere if no one - or only a few of us - can *reach* it?
DON MARKSTEIN to KRITON KYRIMIS, 24 July 1998:
>> Ignoring the issue / being unable to deal with it, and doing trivial
>> things that do not address it is common practice where I come from,
>> and I suspect it was (still is?) the same in Italy when Scarpa wrote
>> the story."
> That's not the point. The STORY is what is important, not the way real
> people behave. In many cases, a story can be told best by conforming to
> actual human behavior; other times, it's best to introduce small
> alterations to keep things going. Political statements, funny sequences,
> reality -- they're all secondary. When you're telling a story, the story
> takes precedence over everything.
But who has the final word on what a good story is? I think that there are
some liberations when it comes to dialogue, but when a translator also
takes the scissors to cut up a story to his/her needs/taste, I think there
is something wrong. Maybe the story looks better to the translator and
his/her editor then, but as has already become clear here is that the fans
of the artist feel the story has been screwed up because the artist's
style has been done harm.
In this case, even the translator *himself* seems to regret what he did a
few years ago.
Experience learns that stories mostly work best the way they were drawn.
Why else would a scenario and/or a synopsis exist as part of the working
method? *That* is the phase to alter a story. As soon as the story is
finished even the artist himself can have difficulties to change it in a
proper way, without ruining the story's balance.
Greetings,
--- Daniel
> Your explanation of the alteration of "Colossus of the Nile" makes
> perfect sense to me, but then, my attitude has always been that if you
> like the original version better, that's okay because it's STILL THERE.
Of course, but what's the use of a comic-book story still existing
somewhere if no one - or only a few of us - can *reach* it?
DON MARKSTEIN to KRITON KYRIMIS, 24 July 1998:
>> Ignoring the issue / being unable to deal with it, and doing trivial
>> things that do not address it is common practice where I come from,
>> and I suspect it was (still is?) the same in Italy when Scarpa wrote
>> the story."
> That's not the point. The STORY is what is important, not the way real
> people behave. In many cases, a story can be told best by conforming to
> actual human behavior; other times, it's best to introduce small
> alterations to keep things going. Political statements, funny sequences,
> reality -- they're all secondary. When you're telling a story, the story
> takes precedence over everything.
But who has the final word on what a good story is? I think that there are
some liberations when it comes to dialogue, but when a translator also
takes the scissors to cut up a story to his/her needs/taste, I think there
is something wrong. Maybe the story looks better to the translator and
his/her editor then, but as has already become clear here is that the fans
of the artist feel the story has been screwed up because the artist's
style has been done harm.
In this case, even the translator *himself* seems to regret what he did a
few years ago.
Experience learns that stories mostly work best the way they were drawn.
Why else would a scenario and/or a synopsis exist as part of the working
method? *That* is the phase to alter a story. As soon as the story is
finished even the artist himself can have difficulties to change it in a
proper way, without ruining the story's balance.
Greetings,
--- Daniel
SSchridde
Disney comics Digest V98 #176
Message 350 -
1998-07-29 at 22:18:32
David Gerstein:
> many egg references.
> Clearly, Barks' intent was that the ducks came from eggs,
> unlikely as it may seem. A theory could be developed that this was all
> some kind of continuing joke, but when your characters are duck-humans,
> why push it so far if it isn't intended to be the "truth"?
Thinking about it again, I came up with a reason for me being
uncomfortable with ducks from eggs:
only fewest times there are eggs shown as "ducks to hatch", and I
don't recall any scene showing little ducks escaping from the
eggshell - that could be compared to giving birth, or stuff like that -
impossible to show in a childrens' comic :-((
Soeren
> many egg references.
> Clearly, Barks' intent was that the ducks came from eggs,
> unlikely as it may seem. A theory could be developed that this was all
> some kind of continuing joke, but when your characters are duck-humans,
> why push it so far if it isn't intended to be the "truth"?
Thinking about it again, I came up with a reason for me being
uncomfortable with ducks from eggs:
only fewest times there are eggs shown as "ducks to hatch", and I
don't recall any scene showing little ducks escaping from the
eggshell - that could be compared to giving birth, or stuff like that -
impossible to show in a childrens' comic :-((
Soeren
Fluks, H.W.
Disney comics Database
Message 351 -
1998-07-29 at 23:14:14
HELMUT (welcome!) asked:
> Is there any database or similiar on the net (or anywhere else), where I can
> find for every issue the stories inside (of course with naming the artists
> and scenarists)?
Yes, there is! It's called the Disney comics Database. Have a look at
http://home.wxs.nl/~fluks4/
and follow the links, which (eventually) will lead you to our ftp site
in Sweden.
EVERYONE:
Today I also made a new site with information from the Database. Have a
look at
http://members.xoom.com/bolderbast/
and see how you like it!
(At the moment, this site does not contain information about comics in
Germany, unfortunately...)
--Harry.
Harry Fluks, Leidschendam, The Netherlands
http://home.wxs.nl/~fluks4
http://members.xoom.com/bolderbast
> Is there any database or similiar on the net (or anywhere else), where I can
> find for every issue the stories inside (of course with naming the artists
> and scenarists)?
Yes, there is! It's called the Disney comics Database. Have a look at
http://home.wxs.nl/~fluks4/
and follow the links, which (eventually) will lead you to our ftp site
in Sweden.
EVERYONE:
Today I also made a new site with information from the Database. Have a
look at
http://members.xoom.com/bolderbast/
and see how you like it!
(At the moment, this site does not contain information about comics in
Germany, unfortunately...)
--Harry.
Harry Fluks, Leidschendam, The Netherlands
http://home.wxs.nl/~fluks4
http://members.xoom.com/bolderbast
Bhc
Disney comics Digest V98 #178
Message 352 -
1998-07-30 at 00:23:36
A point or two about "Treasure of Marco Polo":
The "cheap watches made by McDuck Enterprises" line was one we came up with
to replace the "worker's paradise" reference, in order to make the story
palatable to those at Disney charged with defending the "Disney Index"
(presumably to the death). This, among other changes, rendered it approved
for publication in the original Carl Barks Library.
The story had been on the "Disney Index" for a number of years by the time
the staff of Another Rainbow (original identity of what is now The Bruce
Hamilton Company, current parent company of both Another Rainbow and
Gladstone) began ramping up to produced the Barks Library. The lines
referring to revolution and worker's paradise and the like had been part of
the reason it had been banned, possibly due to the intense political
sensitivities aroused in the U.S.A. by our recently, and badly, concluded
"involvement" in Vietnam.
The infamous "strangulation" scene: I don't know about anybody else, but I
feel that Barks' editors were out to lunch when they let that through in
the original publication. Or maybe they were just disarmed by all the James
Bond/Man from UNCLE/Avengers tomfoolery running rampant in the Sixties
(which, don't get me wrong, I loved!). Whatever the reason, the editorial
standards of the day, had they been engaged in this instance, would almost
certainly have caused that scene - or at least that wire - to be excised
before the story saw print. I'm not saying we did what Western should have
done, but I am implying it.
Hmm...that didn't come off very humble, did it. Oh, well...
Gary
****************************
"It's either very new cheese or very old meat." - Oscar Madison
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gladstone on the Web: http://www.brucehamilton.com
The "cheap watches made by McDuck Enterprises" line was one we came up with
to replace the "worker's paradise" reference, in order to make the story
palatable to those at Disney charged with defending the "Disney Index"
(presumably to the death). This, among other changes, rendered it approved
for publication in the original Carl Barks Library.
The story had been on the "Disney Index" for a number of years by the time
the staff of Another Rainbow (original identity of what is now The Bruce
Hamilton Company, current parent company of both Another Rainbow and
Gladstone) began ramping up to produced the Barks Library. The lines
referring to revolution and worker's paradise and the like had been part of
the reason it had been banned, possibly due to the intense political
sensitivities aroused in the U.S.A. by our recently, and badly, concluded
"involvement" in Vietnam.
The infamous "strangulation" scene: I don't know about anybody else, but I
feel that Barks' editors were out to lunch when they let that through in
the original publication. Or maybe they were just disarmed by all the James
Bond/Man from UNCLE/Avengers tomfoolery running rampant in the Sixties
(which, don't get me wrong, I loved!). Whatever the reason, the editorial
standards of the day, had they been engaged in this instance, would almost
certainly have caused that scene - or at least that wire - to be excised
before the story saw print. I'm not saying we did what Western should have
done, but I am implying it.
Hmm...that didn't come off very humble, did it. Oh, well...
Gary
****************************
"It's either very new cheese or very old meat." - Oscar Madison
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gladstone on the Web: http://www.brucehamilton.com
Anders Chr. Sivebæk
Boer War Canon and a pigeon story
Message 353 -
1998-07-30 at 00:24:56
Hello again friends.=20
I just re-read a danish comics containing the=20
first part of Don Rosas Lo$ chapter 11, that=20
canon (panel 4-5 on page 1), is on the $crooge=20
Mc Duck page, said to be from the Boer War.=20
(In Demark it is said to be from the war between=20
Germany and Denmark in 1864, and from the=20
regiment of a Danish King Chr. IX).
Now that I found out that this was only a danish=20
historical ref. made not to confuese the kids,=20
I would like to now; me with my lack of historical=20
brain on this point; when was the Boer War and=20
how long was it. Rosa or any other english-talking=20
should be able to answer this question.=20
By the way, talking of canons, where did Scrooge=20
get the other canon from, as the black knight in=20
Rosa's new story destroyed one of them?
I just read another story in same comic. I've been=20
looking for that story for some time, because I in=20
some way had gotten the idea that it was made by=20
Barks, but no; It's made by a guy called Victor=20
Arriagada. (His name reminds me about the artist=20
Vicar, where is he on the creator list, what's his=20
real name??). Well, the story is about Donald=20
learning pigeons how to collect coins, everybody=20
thinks it's a fun sight in Duckburg, until they begin=20
to steal and Donald has to go to the court. The=20
story ends with Donald getting a whole life's=20
consume of bird seed!! I read this story (D 94172,
Due-dress=F8ren in DK, it might have been published=20
elsewhere too, but the indexes have a lack there)
some years ago, when I had not got my eyes fully=20
up to Barks' genuis. So later when I read "Rocket=20
Wing Saves the Day" (WDC 139) I actually got=20
a little disappointed, because it was not D 94172=20
by some othere artist. Now I have them both.
Anders Christian - (Email removed)
=20
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #179
******************************************
I just re-read a danish comics containing the=20
first part of Don Rosas Lo$ chapter 11, that=20
canon (panel 4-5 on page 1), is on the $crooge=20
Mc Duck page, said to be from the Boer War.=20
(In Demark it is said to be from the war between=20
Germany and Denmark in 1864, and from the=20
regiment of a Danish King Chr. IX).
Now that I found out that this was only a danish=20
historical ref. made not to confuese the kids,=20
I would like to now; me with my lack of historical=20
brain on this point; when was the Boer War and=20
how long was it. Rosa or any other english-talking=20
should be able to answer this question.=20
By the way, talking of canons, where did Scrooge=20
get the other canon from, as the black knight in=20
Rosa's new story destroyed one of them?
I just read another story in same comic. I've been=20
looking for that story for some time, because I in=20
some way had gotten the idea that it was made by=20
Barks, but no; It's made by a guy called Victor=20
Arriagada. (His name reminds me about the artist=20
Vicar, where is he on the creator list, what's his=20
real name??). Well, the story is about Donald=20
learning pigeons how to collect coins, everybody=20
thinks it's a fun sight in Duckburg, until they begin=20
to steal and Donald has to go to the court. The=20
story ends with Donald getting a whole life's=20
consume of bird seed!! I read this story (D 94172,
Due-dress=F8ren in DK, it might have been published=20
elsewhere too, but the indexes have a lack there)
some years ago, when I had not got my eyes fully=20
up to Barks' genuis. So later when I read "Rocket=20
Wing Saves the Day" (WDC 139) I actually got=20
a little disappointed, because it was not D 94172=20
by some othere artist. Now I have them both.
Anders Christian - (Email removed)
=20
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #179
******************************************
Anders Chr. Sivebæk
Sv:Donaldismen og Tone
Message 354 -
1998-07-30 at 00:53:19
Att: Erik H=F8rthe, sorry other guys, but Erik's=20
mail seems to be out of order
----------
> Jeg leste et gammelt innlegg i Disneylisten=20
> der du sa at du hadde lest Jon> Gisles bok.=20
> Mitt sp=F8rsm=E5l: Leste du den danske utgaven?=20
Ja, det gjorde jeg, men den er l=E5nt p=E5 biblioteket,=20
og derfor ikke min
> Jeg jobber p=E5 den norske Disneyredaksjonen,=20
> og er ute etter en dansk utgave, alts=E5 andologien.
Tillykke, det er mit =F8nskejob, du har (tror jeg nok)=20
Den danske redaktion,
under serieforlaget kan sikker hjelpe deg.=20
> Kan evt. gi den norske utgaven i bytte om=20
det er av interesse. Boken vil bli
> benyttet i forbindelse med "Visste du at"-sidene,=20
som jeg jobber med.
Det lyder interessant at I har f=E5et =F8je p=E5 denne bok,=20
hos jer, men den er selvf=F8lgelig ogs=E5 norsk...=20
> Enkelte facts som henvisninger til historier ol. er lett tilgjengelig=
i
> Gisles bok, og derfor hadde det v=E6rt fint =E5 ha en kopi. Kan du hj=
elpe
meg?
Pr=F8v, som sagt hos den danske redaktionen, ellers kan du m=E5ske k=F8=
pe den hos
en dansk antikvar eller p=E5 et dansk bibliotek.=20
> PPS: Jeg er akkurat hjemme fra ferie i=20
Danmark, og leser gamle mailer. > Regner=20
med at du alt har f=E5tt svar, men i Norge=20
kom det noen historier med > Mikkes (Minnie's!)=20
niese Tone en gang mot slutten av 60-tallet.=20
Historiene var d=E5rlig tegnet som oftest, og hadde=20
kjedelige poeng. Jeg mener =E5 huske at hun
> i den f=F8rste historien var fra Australia.=20
Senere er Tone borte, og andre
> nieser er kommet til i stedet.
=20
Jeg havde akkurat funnet ud af at hun hed Tone=20
p=E5 norsk men tak allikevel.P=E5 dansk heter denne=20
irriterende jente Musse, eller Minuette, hvoraf det
sidste jo svarer ret godt til det engelske Melody,=20
men hun har som du nevner, vist f=E5et ret mage niecer siden da!
Hilsen Anders Christian - (Email removed)
P.S. Jeg elsker det norske Donald Duck & Co.!
mail seems to be out of order
----------
> Jeg leste et gammelt innlegg i Disneylisten=20
> der du sa at du hadde lest Jon> Gisles bok.=20
> Mitt sp=F8rsm=E5l: Leste du den danske utgaven?=20
Ja, det gjorde jeg, men den er l=E5nt p=E5 biblioteket,=20
og derfor ikke min
> Jeg jobber p=E5 den norske Disneyredaksjonen,=20
> og er ute etter en dansk utgave, alts=E5 andologien.
Tillykke, det er mit =F8nskejob, du har (tror jeg nok)=20
Den danske redaktion,
under serieforlaget kan sikker hjelpe deg.=20
> Kan evt. gi den norske utgaven i bytte om=20
det er av interesse. Boken vil bli
> benyttet i forbindelse med "Visste du at"-sidene,=20
som jeg jobber med.
Det lyder interessant at I har f=E5et =F8je p=E5 denne bok,=20
hos jer, men den er selvf=F8lgelig ogs=E5 norsk...=20
> Enkelte facts som henvisninger til historier ol. er lett tilgjengelig=
i
> Gisles bok, og derfor hadde det v=E6rt fint =E5 ha en kopi. Kan du hj=
elpe
meg?
Pr=F8v, som sagt hos den danske redaktionen, ellers kan du m=E5ske k=F8=
pe den hos
en dansk antikvar eller p=E5 et dansk bibliotek.=20
> PPS: Jeg er akkurat hjemme fra ferie i=20
Danmark, og leser gamle mailer. > Regner=20
med at du alt har f=E5tt svar, men i Norge=20
kom det noen historier med > Mikkes (Minnie's!)=20
niese Tone en gang mot slutten av 60-tallet.=20
Historiene var d=E5rlig tegnet som oftest, og hadde=20
kjedelige poeng. Jeg mener =E5 huske at hun
> i den f=F8rste historien var fra Australia.=20
Senere er Tone borte, og andre
> nieser er kommet til i stedet.
=20
Jeg havde akkurat funnet ud af at hun hed Tone=20
p=E5 norsk men tak allikevel.P=E5 dansk heter denne=20
irriterende jente Musse, eller Minuette, hvoraf det
sidste jo svarer ret godt til det engelske Melody,=20
men hun har som du nevner, vist f=E5et ret mage niecer siden da!
Hilsen Anders Christian - (Email removed)
P.S. Jeg elsker det norske Donald Duck & Co.!
Luca Boschi
Still the Don's Neighbours
Message 355 -
1998-07-30 at 01:33:04
Here we are, again!
In case you didn't receive my last message about Anacleto
Faina/Mitraglia, I answer again to all those (personally and through
the DML) asked to me the very first names used for the early
translations in Italy of "Jones".
In the Barks' "Donald Duck" story called in Italy "Paperino e i buoni
propositi" (WDC&S 64/1946; T 9; ZP 22), Jones is exactly called
"Mitraglia", like the next to come Anacleto.
In "Paperino motorizzato", which appeared also before (WDC&S 48/1944;
TAS 38; ZP 19) Jones was strangely called "Bombarda", which is the
name of tne villain (a little bit similar to Jones in his look, but
provided of mustaches) created in Italy for the stories of Cucciolo
(known also in France through the magazine "Pipo"). He is a "funny
man", but in the beginnining he was an antropomorphized dogface guy,
like Jones and like Cucciolo and Beppe were, before becomin' "human
beings"). Maybe some of you know the late Giorgio Rebuffi's
version of the italian Bombarda, in the 50es. Even if he is a man,
indeed he mantains the look of the lips like an "animal".
In a e-mail message of two days ago MarcoBar wrote...
> I'm getting highly interested in this Anacleto affair.
There is enough to write a very interesting article about
translations, italian editing and so on...
(I hope that the possible writer will credit me for this supplement of
informations :-))
Bye!
Luca Boschi
In case you didn't receive my last message about Anacleto
Faina/Mitraglia, I answer again to all those (personally and through
the DML) asked to me the very first names used for the early
translations in Italy of "Jones".
In the Barks' "Donald Duck" story called in Italy "Paperino e i buoni
propositi" (WDC&S 64/1946; T 9; ZP 22), Jones is exactly called
"Mitraglia", like the next to come Anacleto.
In "Paperino motorizzato", which appeared also before (WDC&S 48/1944;
TAS 38; ZP 19) Jones was strangely called "Bombarda", which is the
name of tne villain (a little bit similar to Jones in his look, but
provided of mustaches) created in Italy for the stories of Cucciolo
(known also in France through the magazine "Pipo"). He is a "funny
man", but in the beginnining he was an antropomorphized dogface guy,
like Jones and like Cucciolo and Beppe were, before becomin' "human
beings"). Maybe some of you know the late Giorgio Rebuffi's
version of the italian Bombarda, in the 50es. Even if he is a man,
indeed he mantains the look of the lips like an "animal".
In a e-mail message of two days ago MarcoBar wrote...
> I'm getting highly interested in this Anacleto affair.
There is enough to write a very interesting article about
translations, italian editing and so on...
(I hope that the possible writer will credit me for this supplement of
informations :-))
Bye!
Luca Boschi
Xavier Metcalf
Pennys, Glorias, Nephews & Eggshells
Message 356 -
1998-07-30 at 01:53:23
<HTML>
DANIEL van EIJMEREN:
>The Penny Wise cover was made years before this story. Even as a
>fantasy both names are only similar by coincidence (IMO).
I would have to agree. The term or phrase "Penny Wise" dates back,
perhaps to Ben Franklin's "Poor Man's Almanac"? (i.e., "Penny
wise
and pound foolish.") . Penny Wise is a good name for a $crooge
related character. I think it would be fun to see a family relation
of
her's named "Pound Foolish."
>> Gloria, Fethry's hippy girlfriend.
>
>Very funny name for a hippy girlfriend, makes me curious how she
>looks like.
Perhaps it's the name's translation that makes it funny or strange,
but
in Italy and Brazil I've seen Goofy's girlfriend, Glory-Bee, also translated
to "Gloria", sometimes in the same issue with a Fethry story using
the
name Gloria for HIS girlfriend... but I guess were talking ducks and
dogs
so it must be O.K. (*shrudge*).
I've posted a picture of her in "both" of her guises (Gloria & her
superhero persona, the Purple Butterfly) at:
<A HREF="http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/gloria2.gif">http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/gloria2.gif</A>
>I haven't followed the names closely, but has Magica's grandmother
>already been mentioned. She appears in stories from, I guess, the
sixties,
>in which she lives outside Duckburg in a castle.
You are quite right. Magica's Whistlerian grandmother is another
"Scroogette" I forgot. I need to create an image of her for the
HooZoo.
>I like the universe in such stories, I also even like the sometimes
flat
>story-telling in them. Everyone seems to have nephews, nieces, uncles,
>aunts, and the stories often give a lot of freedom in what's possible.
Speaking of which:
DAVID GERSTEIN:
> [Re: Emil Eagle's nephew]
> At Egmont, we say his name
is Egret Heron, but I have *never*
>seen anything that actually verifies this.
Thank you. I only seem to have one tale with him in it, but is
is from
an older Brazilian comic. Would you know if he was/is used more
than once? The comic is from ALMANAQUE DISNEY #139 in "Minie
e
a Bruxa Malvada em A Maquina da Junentude" (someting like "Minnie
Mouse & the [Snow White] Witch in The Youth Machine"?). As
for a
storycode, the older Brazilian comics would only list other titles
which
printed the tale. In this case it lists: W/WDC25 - RZC1077/6
- AD139/9.
I doubt that WDC stands for the American version of "Walt Disney
Comics", but RZC seems to mean "Reprinted in Ze Carioca #1077 (6th
story). I would imagine that since he wasn't named in this tale,
he
must have appear in others as well.
As for OTHER nephews, I was once perusing through the DC Database
and discovered a Danish or German tale presenting triplet nephews
of either Glomgold or Rockerduck. I was going to ask if anyone
on
the List had this tale, but I can't find my notes and the Database
is
currently down for repairs (I have a MAC so I have to use the on-line
version of the db). If this story rings a bell with anyone, I
would
very much like to know the storycode for it and, if possible, a scan
of
the Nephews.
ABOUT DUCK EGGS:
SOEREN:
>Thinking about it again, I came up with a reason for me being
>uncomfortable with ducks from eggs:
>only fewest times there are eggs shown as "ducks to hatch", and I
>don't recall any scene showing little ducks escaping from the
>eggshell - that could be compared to giving birth, or stuff like that
>- impossible to show in a childrens' comic :-((
We have at least two comics presenting Donald in an ooidal state
(U$ #32 "That's No Fable" and FC #1109 - Aug. 1960, last reprinted
in
Gladstone's "Donald and Mickey" #25 - Sep. 1994). In both cases
Donald was indeed in an eggshell. In "This is Your Life..." He
actually
does a violent hatch showing that he was *irascible* since birth
(hatching), [i.e., not a "learned" trait, but rather his natural state].
As for cartoons, there was the aforementioned DuckTales episode
which retells a version of the "That's No Fable" story, the episode
of "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color" from which the FC
#1109 story was based, and I also remember another episode where
Prof. Ludwig von Drake talks about raising teenagers using Donald
and the Nephewsfor his thesis. In this cartoon there was a scene
where Donald takes the Nephews on a camping trip and the think
they've discovered the Fountain of Youth. I can't recall all
the
details, but at one stage, one of the Nephews is assumed to be
Donald in a slightly regressed state, and later the Nephews think
that a large egg is their uncle after too much of the water.
Of
course the egg turns out to be an (I believe) alligator egg, but the
point of this is to show that even here the Nephews believed
the EGG to be their uncle, showing that this must be a common
state for Duck folks. I'm sure this segment was actually a DD
cartoon which was incorporated into the LvD special. Anyone
recall the actual title of the toon?
JUST FOR FUN:
Here is a scan form the Italian publication "I Classici di Walt Disney"
#93 titled "Happy Birthday Donald Duck"
<A HREF="http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/Compleanno.gif">http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/Compleanno.gif</A>
</HTML>
DANIEL van EIJMEREN:
>The Penny Wise cover was made years before this story. Even as a
>fantasy both names are only similar by coincidence (IMO).
I would have to agree. The term or phrase "Penny Wise" dates back,
perhaps to Ben Franklin's "Poor Man's Almanac"? (i.e., "Penny
wise
and pound foolish.") . Penny Wise is a good name for a $crooge
related character. I think it would be fun to see a family relation
of
her's named "Pound Foolish."
>> Gloria, Fethry's hippy girlfriend.
>
>Very funny name for a hippy girlfriend, makes me curious how she
>looks like.
Perhaps it's the name's translation that makes it funny or strange,
but
in Italy and Brazil I've seen Goofy's girlfriend, Glory-Bee, also translated
to "Gloria", sometimes in the same issue with a Fethry story using
the
name Gloria for HIS girlfriend... but I guess were talking ducks and
dogs
so it must be O.K. (*shrudge*).
I've posted a picture of her in "both" of her guises (Gloria & her
superhero persona, the Purple Butterfly) at:
<A HREF="http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/gloria2.gif">http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/gloria2.gif</A>
>I haven't followed the names closely, but has Magica's grandmother
>already been mentioned. She appears in stories from, I guess, the
sixties,
>in which she lives outside Duckburg in a castle.
You are quite right. Magica's Whistlerian grandmother is another
"Scroogette" I forgot. I need to create an image of her for the
HooZoo.
>I like the universe in such stories, I also even like the sometimes
flat
>story-telling in them. Everyone seems to have nephews, nieces, uncles,
>aunts, and the stories often give a lot of freedom in what's possible.
Speaking of which:
DAVID GERSTEIN:
> [Re: Emil Eagle's nephew]
> At Egmont, we say his name
is Egret Heron, but I have *never*
>seen anything that actually verifies this.
Thank you. I only seem to have one tale with him in it, but is
is from
an older Brazilian comic. Would you know if he was/is used more
than once? The comic is from ALMANAQUE DISNEY #139 in "Minie
e
a Bruxa Malvada em A Maquina da Junentude" (someting like "Minnie
Mouse & the [Snow White] Witch in The Youth Machine"?). As
for a
storycode, the older Brazilian comics would only list other titles
which
printed the tale. In this case it lists: W/WDC25 - RZC1077/6
- AD139/9.
I doubt that WDC stands for the American version of "Walt Disney
Comics", but RZC seems to mean "Reprinted in Ze Carioca #1077 (6th
story). I would imagine that since he wasn't named in this tale,
he
must have appear in others as well.
As for OTHER nephews, I was once perusing through the DC Database
and discovered a Danish or German tale presenting triplet nephews
of either Glomgold or Rockerduck. I was going to ask if anyone
on
the List had this tale, but I can't find my notes and the Database
is
currently down for repairs (I have a MAC so I have to use the on-line
version of the db). If this story rings a bell with anyone, I
would
very much like to know the storycode for it and, if possible, a scan
of
the Nephews.
ABOUT DUCK EGGS:
SOEREN:
>Thinking about it again, I came up with a reason for me being
>uncomfortable with ducks from eggs:
>only fewest times there are eggs shown as "ducks to hatch", and I
>don't recall any scene showing little ducks escaping from the
>eggshell - that could be compared to giving birth, or stuff like that
>- impossible to show in a childrens' comic :-((
We have at least two comics presenting Donald in an ooidal state
(U$ #32 "That's No Fable" and FC #1109 - Aug. 1960, last reprinted
in
Gladstone's "Donald and Mickey" #25 - Sep. 1994). In both cases
Donald was indeed in an eggshell. In "This is Your Life..." He
actually
does a violent hatch showing that he was *irascible* since birth
(hatching), [i.e., not a "learned" trait, but rather his natural state].
As for cartoons, there was the aforementioned DuckTales episode
which retells a version of the "That's No Fable" story, the episode
of "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color" from which the FC
#1109 story was based, and I also remember another episode where
Prof. Ludwig von Drake talks about raising teenagers using Donald
and the Nephewsfor his thesis. In this cartoon there was a scene
where Donald takes the Nephews on a camping trip and the think
they've discovered the Fountain of Youth. I can't recall all
the
details, but at one stage, one of the Nephews is assumed to be
Donald in a slightly regressed state, and later the Nephews think
that a large egg is their uncle after too much of the water.
Of
course the egg turns out to be an (I believe) alligator egg, but the
point of this is to show that even here the Nephews believed
the EGG to be their uncle, showing that this must be a common
state for Duck folks. I'm sure this segment was actually a DD
cartoon which was incorporated into the LvD special. Anyone
recall the actual title of the toon?
JUST FOR FUN:
Here is a scan form the Italian publication "I Classici di Walt Disney"
#93 titled "Happy Birthday Donald Duck"
<A HREF="http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/Compleanno.gif">http://www.jps.net/xephyr/scans/Compleanno.gif</A>
</HTML>
Www.Conk.Com/world/teme
About hatching and CDs and love for the *stories*
Message 357 -
1998-07-30 at 05:43:52
> How many young people -- and young people DO make up the bulk of the > audience -- are likely to understand the term "workers' paradise"? Not > very many; in fact, it's likely a majority learned to read after the > phrase fell out of use in any context except historical. I would > naturally replace it with something they DO understand ...
To enter my 2cs I think that if this simplificatino is taken any further
we'll be reading comix that are s-p-e-l-l-e-d o-u-t for clarity. I'd
really hate to see that in disney comix ;-)
to Daniel van Eijmeren:
> > And another thing I remember seeing is is some kind of draft made
> > by Barks conserning relations insede the Duck-family and states
> > that each person was *hatched*.
>
> You have my curiousity. Do you have further recollections of what it could
> be? Maybe you mean the family tree Carl Barks made in 1991, accompanying
> one of his letters to Don Rosa and which is now published in album Uncle
> Scrooge Adventures No. 42?
Ok let's check... (two minutes pass by... all it takes to through my
comix collection, well almost) i'm refering to family tree which i saw
in book containing Don's 'The life and times of $crooge McDuck' in Don's
comments to the tenth part (the invader of fort duckburg) which
indicates that Donald, his sister, Gladstone & Gus were hatched.
to Juhana:
> Digital copies can be copied without changes. And thus is indeed forever.
I'd think that even if digital is *practically* forever some errors
could find their way in to the data especially if talking about graphics
and if they are copied over and over. Also CD burners have been known to
make mistakes time to time.
But although CDs might not for eternity they still last longer, I should
think, than print. And with me it isn't the paper, it is stories,
characters, artwork and plots that entertain me. (of course if the
collectors are interested in absolute orginals one can't argue with that
but I say when you reach that point your interest is no longer in the
stories but in the *collection*)
Teme
To enter my 2cs I think that if this simplificatino is taken any further
we'll be reading comix that are s-p-e-l-l-e-d o-u-t for clarity. I'd
really hate to see that in disney comix ;-)
to Daniel van Eijmeren:
> > And another thing I remember seeing is is some kind of draft made
> > by Barks conserning relations insede the Duck-family and states
> > that each person was *hatched*.
>
> You have my curiousity. Do you have further recollections of what it could
> be? Maybe you mean the family tree Carl Barks made in 1991, accompanying
> one of his letters to Don Rosa and which is now published in album Uncle
> Scrooge Adventures No. 42?
Ok let's check... (two minutes pass by... all it takes to through my
comix collection, well almost) i'm refering to family tree which i saw
in book containing Don's 'The life and times of $crooge McDuck' in Don's
comments to the tenth part (the invader of fort duckburg) which
indicates that Donald, his sister, Gladstone & Gus were hatched.
to Juhana:
> Digital copies can be copied without changes. And thus is indeed forever.
I'd think that even if digital is *practically* forever some errors
could find their way in to the data especially if talking about graphics
and if they are copied over and over. Also CD burners have been known to
make mistakes time to time.
But although CDs might not for eternity they still last longer, I should
think, than print. And with me it isn't the paper, it is stories,
characters, artwork and plots that entertain me. (of course if the
collectors are interested in absolute orginals one can't argue with that
but I say when you reach that point your interest is no longer in the
stories but in the *collection*)
Teme
Soeren Krarup Olesen
Disney comics Digest V98 #178
Message 358 -
1998-07-30 at 11:33:47
Anders wrote:
> Lets get something straight Harry, Eta Beta is a member of the list right,
> (or isn't he?)
Yes.
> Eega Weega, maybe he's called Eta beta too? He is Mickey's friend from
> outher space, and was he not created by Floyd Gottfredson?
> Well, please give me some answers!
Your're absolutely right. He has been used a lot in Denmark
especially in Massoimo de Vita's (IMO stupid and childish)
Comet-stories. In those stories he is called Alpha Beta (in
Danish) and the comet is called Beta, and the dog that
adores Beta is called Pluto - sigh!
Mickey also has *another* friend from outer space,
which in Denmark has been used only a very few times,
e.g. in Scarpa's "Mickey Mouse arver Mikitanien" (from Jumbobog
17). In that story he is called "Lille Volta" (=Little Volta), and
his Italian name is Atomino Bip-Bip.
Soeren
> Lets get something straight Harry, Eta Beta is a member of the list right,
> (or isn't he?)
Yes.
> Eega Weega, maybe he's called Eta beta too? He is Mickey's friend from
> outher space, and was he not created by Floyd Gottfredson?
> Well, please give me some answers!
Your're absolutely right. He has been used a lot in Denmark
especially in Massoimo de Vita's (IMO stupid and childish)
Comet-stories. In those stories he is called Alpha Beta (in
Danish) and the comet is called Beta, and the dog that
adores Beta is called Pluto - sigh!
Mickey also has *another* friend from outer space,
which in Denmark has been used only a very few times,
e.g. in Scarpa's "Mickey Mouse arver Mikitanien" (from Jumbobog
17). In that story he is called "Lille Volta" (=Little Volta), and
his Italian name is Atomino Bip-Bip.
Soeren
Vidar Svendsen
Boer War Canon and a pigeon story
Message 359 -
1998-07-30 at 11:58:11
Anders Christian:
>By the way, talking of canons, where did Scrooge
>get the other canon from, as the black knight in
>Rosa's new story destroyed one of them?
He has loads of them hidden between the panels in
the stories - just as he has several Money Bins
when the one in use is destroyed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.sol.no/~vidasven
And he said all those numbers
made him numb,
which (he thinks) is why
they're called numbers
>By the way, talking of canons, where did Scrooge
>get the other canon from, as the black knight in
>Rosa's new story destroyed one of them?
He has loads of them hidden between the panels in
the stories - just as he has several Money Bins
when the one in use is destroyed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.sol.no/~vidasven
And he said all those numbers
made him numb,
which (he thinks) is why
they're called numbers
Fluks, H.W.
Dutch Wolf stories
Message 360 -
1998-07-30 at 13:19:31
DANIEL:
> In Dutch stories it's quite usual to have crossovers with Br'er Bear. At
> the end of the 1960s, when the Marten Toonder Studio made Wolf and
> Hiawatha stories, it went even further because Bear, Fox and Wolf were
> all member of the wood's Villian Club (mostly misspelled).
Misspelled, maybe, but would an American misspell the word "villain" as
"villian"? 8-)
> BTW. Did the 'Fillians Clup' (it's always misspelled) originate in the
> WDC-stories or is it a Dutch creation?
The writer of those stories, Patty Klein, once said that she invented
the Villain Club (Booswichtenclub/Booswigteklup) and the Good Ladies
Club (with mrs. Schaapkens). She also invented the Pafwang indians, a
rival tribe of Hiawatha's.
> Barks' art-only story "Trial Tycoon" (OS 1025)
Actually, "Trail Tycoon". Probably there's something wrong with the 'a'
and the 'i' on your keyboard... 8-)
> there have been *quite a lot* of great Wolf stories.
> The ones from the sixties were made in a not so regular but IMO very
> original style by the Dutch Marten Toonder Studio.
Most of them were drawn by Dutch artists Jan Steeman and Jan van
Haasteren. Some later ones by Piet WIjn. All of these artists have a
distinct Toonder Studio influence, which makes their work different from
other Disney artists' work.
> The 1970s ones were
> drawn by an artist with a very expressive style and the plots for these
> are mostly great.
The early 70s stories were quite bad, and drawn by Eddy van
Schuijlenburg. The later ones (from 1976 on) were done by Dick Matena
and some by Wilbert Plijnaar. With a heavy influence of Daan Jippes.
> If a translator or editor is interested, I can xerox some great Wolf-
> stories to show what I mean.
Probably Gladstone will print some of these in a few months. They
already bought, translated, and scripted them.
--Harry.
> In Dutch stories it's quite usual to have crossovers with Br'er Bear. At
> the end of the 1960s, when the Marten Toonder Studio made Wolf and
> Hiawatha stories, it went even further because Bear, Fox and Wolf were
> all member of the wood's Villian Club (mostly misspelled).
Misspelled, maybe, but would an American misspell the word "villain" as
"villian"? 8-)
> BTW. Did the 'Fillians Clup' (it's always misspelled) originate in the
> WDC-stories or is it a Dutch creation?
The writer of those stories, Patty Klein, once said that she invented
the Villain Club (Booswichtenclub/Booswigteklup) and the Good Ladies
Club (with mrs. Schaapkens). She also invented the Pafwang indians, a
rival tribe of Hiawatha's.
> Barks' art-only story "Trial Tycoon" (OS 1025)
Actually, "Trail Tycoon". Probably there's something wrong with the 'a'
and the 'i' on your keyboard... 8-)
> there have been *quite a lot* of great Wolf stories.
> The ones from the sixties were made in a not so regular but IMO very
> original style by the Dutch Marten Toonder Studio.
Most of them were drawn by Dutch artists Jan Steeman and Jan van
Haasteren. Some later ones by Piet WIjn. All of these artists have a
distinct Toonder Studio influence, which makes their work different from
other Disney artists' work.
> The 1970s ones were
> drawn by an artist with a very expressive style and the plots for these
> are mostly great.
The early 70s stories were quite bad, and drawn by Eddy van
Schuijlenburg. The later ones (from 1976 on) were done by Dick Matena
and some by Wilbert Plijnaar. With a heavy influence of Daan Jippes.
> If a translator or editor is interested, I can xerox some great Wolf-
> stories to show what I mean.
Probably Gladstone will print some of these in a few months. They
already bought, translated, and scripted them.
--Harry.