Keskustelujen arkisto

Dwight Decker writes:
> Poor Horace does seem to suffer from a lack of distinctiveness,
> especially when he isn't wearing his yoke.
>
Come to think of it, that makes him an ideal candidate to play
Jacob Marley's ghost in the Disney version of "A Christmas Carol":
Marley's ghost **does** wear a yoke, of sorts (or at least it would
fit in well with the chains wrapped around him).

As for the Big Bad Wolf's playing the part, how about using Black/Bad
Pete as the ghost (certainly a heartless villain, who must have
forged a very long chain in his life), and then using Big Bad Wolf
as the menacing figure revealed at the last minute to be the Spirit
of Christmas Yet-to-Come (the role played by Pete in the cartoon)?
Big Bad could laugh at Scrooge and then blow him into the grave in
the scene in which he shows who he is. Anyway, it's all over and
done now, of course. Our own ideas of how it **should** have been
done will have to wait for some future WDC&S reprint (following in
the steps of Morris the Midget Moose, etc.), when suitable changes
can be made as directed by the members of this mailing list.

Wilmer Rivers

Bror:
> I _have_ seen identical plots in Woody Woodpecker and Donald Duck
> stories.

Freddy Milton occasionally re-used a plot from one story for another.
The most famous example (as discussed on this list before) is
"The Big Sneeze", which has at least 5 versions (original Ducks,
Kalle Klodrik, Redrawn Ducks, Woody Woodpecker, Gnuff Family).

--Harry.
><><><><

--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #25
*****************************************

Well, I'll try to catch up with old mail... I had to read 7 issues of the Digest in a while (thanks, Rich... I'll "see" you later), and I apologies for any misplaced quote.

LUNA STORTA, KATIE, RICH and DAVID GERSTEIN
On V98#23 i wrote, on Goldie & Brigitta
>>that meeting was *never* documented, as far as I know.

OOOPS ! What a goof !! And I call myself a "Scarpian"... what a shame... :-(
As soon as I read the description of the meeting on a back list's issue, I clearly recalled the scene, and the dialogue, too.
Strange tricks memory plays, sometimes; in fact, I had re-re-read the story quite a few times in the previous weeks, in order to scan the images I sent to KATIE, and it never crossed my mind that some panels could be missing in the "Superdisney" #2 reprint...
BTW, at this point I believe that the meeting of Brigitta and Goldie was *purposedly* butchered away from the reprint...
However, my apologies to you all, and thanks to DAVID for the correction.
We're seemingly left with just the original Topolino #577 as a source for scans, then... and I don't have that issue, alas and alack !

Also, another goof was the reference to LVD's first appearance in Italy as 1964, while it was 1962. What a day !

DAVID
>There were actually several stories in the PHANTOM BLOT series
>that mixed Ducks and Mickey. Perhaps *all* of them did

Yes, probably. I've already found 3 others.

on FILO SGANGA/JUBAL WHATEVER

It's just unfair ! I practically started all this commotion, and when my discussion with RICH finally made it to the List, I've been cut out by my *@#% provider and missed it... ;-)
I'll try to resume my opinions in short.

DAVID (sorry, I still miss V98#15, so I only know quotes from your original posting)
>>The character in Van Horn's WDC #596 "Terror of Duckburg"
>>*is*, visually, a lot like Scarpa's character (with the simple addition
>>of pince-nez).

Sorry, I totally disagree. Sganga is clearly of the poultry persuasion, while Frostfeathers Pomp is a rapacious bird (Owlish, I daresay).

>>I had this Filo Sganga story to translate for Gladstone last
>>year and was asked not to use the name Cock. I chose the name Pomp
>>with the following logic [...]

I've never questioned the choice of Sganga's English name. I clearly understand the reason for avoiding any possible double entendres about it, and you could call him "Joe Blow", if you so like.
Well, actually, it would surely be more appropriate than "Frostfeathers Pomp" to Sganga's "personality". I cannot think of anything less "pompous" than Sganga, really...

>>It seemed like a good solution at the time. More seriously, no
>>Scarpa fan on this list seemed to object before our Eta Beta recently,

To which MARCO replied
>May I humbly suggest that this happened because Scarpa fans are mostly
>Italians who have NEVER read the Van Horn story? So this contamination
>never hit any of us...

And RICH
>You are correct when you say that Scarpa fans have not even mentioned
>the *contentiousness* surrounding the Pomp v. Sganga issue... at least
>not vocally on the List. I'd think this is largely due to the idea
>that many Scarpa fans are not aware that Pomp was Sganga's introduction
>into the U.S. Disney market. Some fans have e-mailed me asking why I
>call "Pomp" the U.S.'s version of Sganga, and have commented why I must
>be mistaken. I just thought that the List might be a good place for
>clarification.

Which undoubtably is. And I can add that I joined the list only a couple of months ago, and that, probably, not many of us took a look at RICH's HooZoo, lately, finding an image of Van Horn's character instead of Sganga, with a description line that goes :

"J. Frostfeathers Pomp, also known as Jubal Cock (Filo Sganga in Italian) is "Duckburg's most distinguished Jurist, a man who has added immeasurably to the rich heritage of local legal history." Aside from being an eminent judge, he is also a businessman who sometimes helps Brigitta MacBridge. While Romano Scarpa created Jubal Cock decades ago, he only recently surfaced in the USA (without Brigitta), and with a brand new name (J. Frostfeathers Pomp or simply Jubal Pomp) as it was highly doubtful that Disney would accept the name as it stood. His first USA appearance was in William Van Horn's "The Terror of Duckburg" (WDC&S #596). Now that both he and Brigitta have appeared in the USA, it is possible more of the older Scarpa stories will see print."

Ha ! (sorry, Rich) "Duckburg's most distinguished Jurist", indeed.

MARCO also said
>Remember however that Sganga is an improvisation man, a typical
>Italian character from those movies which in the 50's and 60's were
>usually performed by Alberto Sordi (the classical artist in
>"getting-by" - what we call <l'arte di arrangiarsi>...).
>He is a passionate, naive character.

MARCO's being very good, here. Sganga's undoubtably naive and passionate, but I'd plainly call him a crook, often leaning on the "proper" criminal side. He's more often in front of judges than not, and even teams up with the Beagle Boys sometimes... for Pete's sake, in his very first story he kidnaps Brigitta for ransom... it would be very hard for any Italian reader to believe he could ever become a judge, himself...

>>but if others agree with him [that's me, I guess], I'll just have John Clark remove the
>>"Frostfeathers" references from that upcoming story - and
>>then "Jubal Pomp" and "J. Frostfeathers Pomp" will just be two
>>very similar-looking, but officially different, characters.

We're both repeating ourselves, here, but again, they're not similar-looking at all.
There must be something very strange about this character... I remember a conversation I had with KRYTON, some time ago (hope you don't mind if I quote our private mail, Kryton), where he told me the 2 characters looked exactly the same to him, but when he showed the images to his mother, she said they were *totally* different...

However, you cannot base your rendition of a character only on how it looks like... even the Beagle Boys are allowed personalities of their own, sometimes, and they surely look the same...

But the above intervention already had 2 replies, quite different from each other

MARCO said
>So after all this would be the best solution...

while RICH...
>NO! (8-() Please don't. I LOVE that part of his name. And totally
>agree with SOEREN who said:
>
>> I think that the name "Jubal Pomp" is excellent.
>> "Pomp" associates with richness and exaggeration...
>
>Also "Frostfeathers" adds alliterative color to his *pompous*
>imagery.

Well, I'm sure that MARCO did read quite a few Sganga's stories, and I'm nearly certain that RICH never did, but SOEREN's opinion quite surprises me, since from previous postings he seems knowing his Scarpa pretty well...

Again, how could you associate the adjective "pompous" to somebody as clumsy as Sganga ?
But I'm losing sight of the core of the matter, here, we were not supposed to discuss the English name, but the character's personality and role.

RICH (to DAVID)
>Please don't think I was complaining in the last posting. I was merely
>asking for clarification on the reasons that Filo Sganga was introduced
>through the vehicle of "Terror of Duckburg", in the
>characterization of the Duckburgian *Judge* rather than, perhaps,
>just introducing him in a Scarpa story where his role as confidant to
>Brigitta might seem more logical?

And that's something I could finally agree with... what happened with the American version of "Il Ratto di Brigitta", in the end ? That would, IMO, clearly show Sganga's true nature...

Now, I don't want this discussion to resemble yet another case of fans questioning the rights of an author of doing his/her job as he/she pleases but, as a big Scarpa fan, it's just that it seems to me that the "melting" of Frostfeathers Pomp and Sganga would be somewhat disrespectful to the creator of the character... like, you wouldn't make a criminal mastermind of Gyro, would you ? In a "What if" one-shot it could be alright, I surely appreciate "trading places" types of stories, but could you make him an evil genius on a permanent basis ? Am I exaggerating ? Well, I quite like Sganga "as is", he's a very original character, and can stand a role of his own in the Disney universe, IMO. If my opinion is asked, we could have both characters, and even make them interact, why not (I still insist they don't look the same at all...).
But then, if you decide otherwise, I won't keep complaining, and I'll end this intervention with the (now) famous ARCHONTIS' words:

>Hey, IT'S ALL ABOUT COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS!!! JUST ENJOY THE DAMNED
>THINGS!!!
(the line I really loved, though, was "We sometimes disect the mosquito but we devour the camel" ;-)

STEFAN

[on LYDIA the tattooed lady]
>I wonder what you wanted the translators to do. I realize that in
>Italian, the name "Lydia" (or would it be "Lidia"??) might be
>the same for the lady and the ancient country, which is necessary
>for the gag to work.

Yes, it is.

>But even so, are there well-known Italian lyrics for that song?

No. The song itself is mostly unknown, in Italy, but that's the whole point...

>Or would you prefer to have the English lyrics intact?
>Is that normally done in Italian Disney comics?

No, it's not (except in some collector's reprints), and I don't think it would be feasible.

>If you lived in Sweden, you might be equally disappointed in my
>translation. <snip>
>... I finally stopped at ABBA's "Waterloo" (with some of the Swedish
>lyrics, of course). At least, that song is nothing if not well-known.

That's perfectly reasonable, to me. The Italian translators also changed the lyrics of Lucio Battisti's song from "Balla Linda" to "Balla Lidia", to make it fit.

>As a Groucho Marx fan, I heartily agree that "Lydia the Tattoed Lady"
>is a hilarious piece, and it's a perfect gag to use
>in Rosa's American script. But, in my opinion, there's no way Donald Duck
>can sing long texts in English in a Swedish comic book.

Nor in Italian ones.

Now, I seem to detect quite a bit of professional pride in your remark, and I know translating is a tough job directly, since I've done a few translations myself, in the past, although on a semi-professional basis only, which means I never had the pressure of a tight schedule or incoming deadlines as an obstacle.
Still, even with all the time in the world, sometimes you just cannot come up with something close enough to the original meaning, especially when you're working on gags.
I don't have much experience with comic material, having worked mainly on technical manuals where humour is usually involuntary, but whenever I find something that I cannot "render" in Italian without long paraphrases, I use a magic tool that's called *footnote*.

In the present case, while the balloons kept their Abba or Battisti songs, a footnote could have explained the original reference without much effort, IMO, and, perhaps, somebody could have been curious about who those Marx Bros. were, and check out some of their movies as well... do you see my point, as a "Marxist" yourself ?
And for fans of both the Brothers and the Ducks that couldn't read English, they wouldn't have completely missed the gag...

Cheers

Eta Beta

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HARRY FLUKS:
>Don M (to Rich B):
>> Bucky Bug didn't actually SEE Mickey Mouse -- as I
>> recall, Mickey "appeared" in a thought balloon when Bucky and
>> Bootle Beetle were discussing humans. (I could look up the issue
>> number, if you're really curious, but don't recall it offhand.)
>
>It's the story where Bucky meets Bootle Beetle, in WDC&S 87,
>December 1947.

O.K., thanks. I couldn't remember where I saw that issue, and it
would appear that in the image it is actually Bo who imagines seeing
Mickey Mouse (representative of a "man") as a giant. Though,
where would he et the idea in his head that men look like giant
Mickey Mouses? I would think that, like in the tale of Jack & the
Beabstalk (not the Disney version) Bo would imagine "giants" as
looking like regular bugs, only bigger. I know they were foing
on a "Human Hunt" (as oppose to a "Bug Hunt" I guess). It is
also curious that after Bucky & Bo meet Bootle Beetle, Bootle
tells them about his own encounter with a *human.* In my mind
I would have thought he'd relate the tale of how he met *Donald
Duck* since it was indeed Donald whom he met in t film by the
name of "Bootle Beetle" (Aug. 1, 1947). Instead the image we
see is of a *real* human (at least it's legs and hands).

While on this topic, maybe Don M. knows, at what point did
Bootle go from being a friend to being Bucky's grandfather. I
could swear I read Bucky calling him grandpa.

And would you say that Bucky & Bo have a "Mickey & Goofy"
type relationship?

-Rich (xephyr)
http://www.jps.net/xephyr/rich/disney.html

There have been some passing comments on the Duck Tales TV show recently... I'd
said I felt a sinking feeling when I began a foreign Disney story and saw the
Money Bin had a dome on it because I knew it would be an Italian story.
Somebody replied to the effect that the sight of the dome on the bin gave him a
nostalgic feeling because it reminded him of the Duck Tales show. It reminded
me that Duck Tales had gone with the domed Money Bin -- and it reminded me that
I hadn't looked at or even thought about the show for an awfully long time.

Well, some of you on this ML are young enough that Duck Tales was part of your
childhood experience and may have even got you interested in this corner of the
Disney Universe to begin with. I'm enough older that I grew up with Barks
comics in the '50s -- for me, Duck Tales in the late '80s was just one more
thing in a vast clutter of everything else. Interesting because it was an
adaptation of the world Barks created, but for me kind of lost in the noise of
everything else going on at the time.

But last night, I got out one of my Duck Tales laserdiscs, which I haven't
looked at since about 1990, and watched a couple of episodes just to refresh my
memory. Y'know what? I enjoyed 'em. Now, I could complain about Donald being
clumsily eliminated from the regular cast, or about the Beagle Boys being made
into individual characters the way they were, or about the introduction of new
characters...but for the most part, this was a fairly faithful adaptation of
what Barks created. (It was good to see Barks get story credit for the Terries
& Fermies episode.) Seeing characters like Flintheart Glomgold and Magica de
Spell come to life was great, too. I'd always thought the perfect voice for
Gyro Gearloose would be Sterling Holloway, and apparently somebody else thought
so, too (at least that's who I think Gyro's voice artist was imitating).

Of the new supporting cast, the only one who seems to be enduring beyond the
show is Launchpad, who still shows up now and then in Egmont comics. Myself,
I'd like to see Doofus used in comics, just to give the Junior Woodchucks
something of a supporting cast of their own (HD&L seem to be the only permanent
members of the JWs -- their fellow members are different in every story).

Anyway, I enjoyed taking another look at Duck Tales. I wish it could have been
a little closer to Barks's stories, but that it was as close as it was is
probably something of a miracle.

--Dwight Decker

LUCA BOSCHI WROTE in DcD V98 #18:

>In a panel of the story, later, the same Goldie comes to Duckburg for a holiday
>party. And she meets also Brigitta, who sadly, in the corner of a panel, is
drawn by
>Scarpa watching the two old lovers meeting again. And so Goldie speaks her:
"You must
>be Brigitta...I know what you are thinking, but don't worry! I'm too much
old, and
>can only go back to my hospital!"
>In the next panel, she adds: "Trust me! When you want to break into
Scrooge's heart,
>you must let him think that you love his stingyness more than himself!". And
>Brigitta: "Oh, thanks, Goldie, my friend!"
>

LUNA STORTA (in DcD V98 #21):
>I can surely scan for you the meeting between Goldie and Brigitta,
>but... I don't remember at all in which publication this story can be
>found, I surely own it, but don't remember where... Maybe someone can
>help?
>

ETA BETA (in DcD V98 #23):
>Sorry, mate, but I doubt you can... that meeting was *never* documented, as
far as I know.
>According with MARCO's index, there are only 3 appearances of Goldie at
all, in Italian stories, and the only one featuring both her and Brigitta
was Scarpa's "Arriva Paperetta Ye-Ye", TL 577, 12/66.
>It is obvious they would have met, during the final party, but the story
ends before that... and there's not a single panel in the whole story
portraying them together.

Both Luca Boschi and Eta Beta are right. I clearly remember the scene
described by Luca, and I'd swear it was from a Scarpa story. BUT the story
is NOT I TL 577-A, as I checked.
So which story is that? It cannot be found via the FSB index because the
appearances given are (mostly) those listed by Fossati, and are largely
incomplete. Fossati listed only the main characters, not all the
appearances. I'm revising this section of the index with the help of a few
friends (hi, Francois!!!), but it's a hard and long job...

So I've tried to check the stories by Scarpa with Brigitta, because I'm
almost certain it's one of these. My suspects are focusing on I TL 1061-A,
"Zio Paperone e il casco d'oro", the story with the "money perfume" idea
suggested to Scarpa by Barks himself. Unfortunately I can't check my guess,
because I have no idea where in my house is now "Grandi Classici Disney" #29
with the reprint... that's what happens when, instead of keeping your comics
in sealed plastic bags, you throw them onto your head, dive into them like a
porpoise, etc. etc. (and when you have two children around in the house who
freely draw on your collection...).

But certainly there is someone on this list who can trace down I TL 1061-A.
I'm thinking of FABRIZIO, for instance, who might give a look at his "Paper
Fantasy" #4.

And if that's not the story we are looking for, let's go on searching,
fellows: the story quoted by Luca DOES exist!

Marco

RE: BOOTLE BEETLE
Ooops! I should have read that very same Bucky Bug story in WDC&S #87
a little more carefully. It appears that it is in that same story where
Bootle is
called "Grandpa" when he introduces himself to Bucky & Bo by saying, "Old
Bootle Beetle is my name, but call me Grandpa, just the same." And Bucky
does just that at the end of the tale.

In my researching of Bootle, it appears that he was a very utilitarian
character,
and an anomaly in the chronology of Donald Duck. The Bootle we know in
BB stories is the version depicted in most of the Bootle Beetle/Donald Duck
cartoons where both Donald and Bootle are elderly. The younger, spunkier
Bootle appears only in *flashbacks* where Donald also has the younger
and more common appearance we usually see (as in the cartoons "Bootle
Beetle" and "Sea Salts"). Another "bootle beetle", or perhaps the very same
one, also appears as Ludwig von Drake's gullible young assistant, Herman,
a traveling companion responsible for manning the projector during Prof.
von Drake's many lectures (first seen in the revamped-for-television version
of "Mickey and the Beanstalk" when Disney added new animation to replace
the original narration of Edgar Bergen with that of the Professor).

-Rich (xephyr)
http://www.jps.net/xephyr/rich/disney.html