Keskustelujen arkisto

DAVID B. FENSKE:

> In
> the lab where I work, we have a Post-Doc from the Netherlands, and she is
> amazed at this, and gives her height in meters (1.83...).

A round 6 ft! (1.83 happens to be my height, and this is the only reason I
happen to know the equivalence.)

> This is just
> incomprehensable to most Canadians.

One advantage of measuring your height in metric is the old rule of thumb
saying that if your height is 1.xx m, then your weight should be xx kg.
[The rule is incorrect, BTW, but this is beside the point.]

> (how many pints in a gallon??).

Or, as Isaac Asimov put it in the title of an article of his on the metric
system, "how many inches in a mile"? The article ended with the question
"how many centimeters in a kilometer"? I'm sure that many people who
use imperial measurements can answer the second question, even though
they might not be able to answer the first!

[Just in case anyone's curious, the answer to the first question is 63360
(or 72900, if you're a sailor), and yes, I looked it up. The answer,
of course, to the second question is 100000, and I didn't have to look
it up.]
--
Kriton (e-mail: (Email removed))
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis
-----
"Ah, there I am... I mean, there you are!"
-----

I'd like to throw in my $.02 on Canada. I live in Wisconsin, just a hop
skip and a swim across Lake Superior from Canada. I have never been
there, though. I have seen War of the Wendigo, and I noticed the "Eh?"s
in the dialouge, too. I was amused, to be sure. Yes, it's a
stereotype, but I happen to be 1/4 Norwegian, and my own dialect is
similar. My maternal grandmother lives with my parents and I, and she
is 100% Norwegian. Although none of us speak it, we do have a bit of an
accent in that direction. My grandmother remembers some, though, as she
spoke no English until beginning school.

Question to Norwegian list members... Is the expression "Uff dah"
actually used in Norway? It's rather common among the Wisconsin
Scandinavians.

Regarding the metric system... I have a lot of trouble envisioning
metric distances, but when I have to measure something, I always used
metrics (usually centimeters) because it's so much easier to work with!
All the American science classes use metrics, too.

On to more on-topic matters...!!!
I just got done watching "Once Upon a Dime" the DuckTales episode which
attempts to explain Scrooge's past. I was surprised at how it actually
did follow some the comic book "facts". Scrooge did indeed earn his #1
dime shining (or rather chiseling!) a ditchdigger's boots, earned his
way to America, then worked for his uncle on a Mississippi river boat.
His parents were entirely different than Rosa's version, and his sisters
are absent, however. His uncle is "Catfish" McDuck instead of
"Pothole", but perhaps Pothole was called Catfish in his more fragrant
moments(?!?!?!)
The cartoon skipped much of the interim of his rise to riches, and gave
a brief but different view of his Klondike years. (I can excuse the
absense of Goldie since she was used often in other episodes.) :-)
Anyway, just an interesting alternate view of Scrooge's past.

I have nothing much else to ramble about, so I'll cut this message
short. (Short? Well, maybe not...!)

Katie Sullivan
(Email removed)
(Email removed)

NILS:

(About "Sign of the Triple Distelfink", the Gladstone Gander story)
> but I guess we shall have to wait for the Americans to read it (in
> WDC&S?) half a year from now.

Actually, it's being printed as soon as April, in UNCLE $CROOGE #310.

-Shaun
Fortuna Favet Fortibus

Hi, Folks

STEFAN

>I'm adamant about this. Scrooge speaking
>English all of a sudden, in a Swedish comic, just
>because I can't translate
>a gag with little or no bearing on the story? Even
>in this case, it would
>look perfectly absurd to me. I would never even
>consider that.

I hope you don't feel like we're twisting your arm, here... ;-)
It's just for the sake of discussion.
Still, I don't see why you're so horrified by the sole thought
of having a duck speak a few words in English... six, in this
case, three of which numbers...

Let's make another example:
In a '66 Barks one pager (US 61), the whole gag relies on a
sign hanging from the wall that says "Top Wages".
At the end of the page, a young duck-employee is contemplating
with disbelief the "wage" he just received, a "top" (spinning-top).
Now, what would you do, here ? Being the gag un-translatable, the only
alternative to a footnote would be not publishing the story at all...
The Italians went for the footnote, in this case.
I think it was the sensible thing to do, and I can't help wondering
why they're not doing so with Don Rosa stories.

>I'm amazed by the high level of education among the Finnish and Italian
>people.
<snip>
>And if I were to
>go out in Malmo, asking people on the bus or in the
>grocery store if they
>know how Mark Twain got his name, I'd expect to be
>met by a blank stare, at best.

Well, I must admit I wouldn't do any better at any grocers, either.
It is a sad fact that less and less people read books, nowadays, and
Mark Twain is probably, for most, just a boring memory from school,
at best...

But the point is still the same: if you did use those six English
words, it would have done no harm to people that don't know, and
don't care about Mark Twain, it would have pleased people that do
know and care and, perhaps, stimulated a new interest in people
that didn't, until then.
Not to mention that "bit more" of intellectual enjoyment those
literary references add to Don's stories, although I agree with
you that those gags are not, mostly, instrumental to the plot.

>Why, if somebody doesn't stop me anytime soon, I'll go on
>to suggest that those who *would* understand the original gag
>are much better off reading the original American comics
>instead of a crappy translation; and probably already are doing
>so... but that might be going a bit too far.

And why ? In fact, this is the *best* possible choice, and sometimes
the *only* choice. I've never studied English at school, and the
reason that really "pushed" me to get past the simpler "international"
English I learned travelling, was the desire to read books that
weren't translated in Italian. I started reading them with a =
dictionary
handy, and slowly learned how to enjoy the style, etc. AND learned a
language, in the meantime.
Hard as this may sound to your ears, there's no translation that
*could* be as good as the original, I'm afraid.

What I do with Don's stories, most of the time, is reading them
in Italian first, then, a few months later, when they become finally
available, in English, usually with twice the fun...

But a lot of people still *need* translations, and it would be nice
if they could fully enjoy Don's wit, too.

>should I use "dollar" as the given currency instead of "kronor",
>which is otherwise legal tender all over the Swedish Disney comics
>world?
<snip>
>In Sweden, it's not all that clear that Duckburg must be in America.
<snip>
>Now, I realize that readers in countries like Italy, where nobody
>tries to pretend that the Ducks live anywhere else than real-life
>America, can't easily relate to these problems.

Well, you see, in stories from the late '40s - early '50s, they
*did* have the characters living in Italy, actually, and Scrooge's
bin bore the "Lira" sign on its front.
I remember a translation of Barks "Terror of the River", where the =
ducks
descended the river Ticino, passing through a few Lombardy towns...
But then, Italian authors became more "philological" themselves =
(should
I remind of Romano Scarpa once more ? ;-), and everything was =
"brought
back" in America.

As far as I can remember, this caused no cultural shock whatsoever...

>And many other people will surely agree and find it sacrilegious to
>Don Rosa not to follow his every word religiously.

Oh, no. We wouldn't want to start all that again, I hope... ;-)
I'd better find some other author to discuss WRT translations,
I guess... how about Scarpa ? ;-)

HARRY

[to MARCO on MOE]
>Marco:
>>The first appearance of Hard Haid Moe is reportedly
>>on a Studio Disney Story
>>by Kinney and Hubbard which appeared on "Topolino"
>>#462.
>
>Of course you're referring to the first *Italian*
>appearance.

Well, that was an *absolute* (whatever it means) reference, made
by Alberto Becattini as well, as the very first MOE's story *ever*.

[to STEFAN on footnotes]
>To me that would be like an explaining
>footnote in the subtitles of a foreign movie.

But... but... subtitles ARE footnotes...

>I often like to see what a translator did with
>a story (you can call that one of my hobbies).

An hobby we share, seems like :-)

>One example I remember from a Barks story:
>The "thinking boxes" story (WDC 141). <snip>

In the original, the lines went:

Rabbit : "Mister, can you spare a dime for a bunch of carrots ?"
Donald : OH, SHUT UP !

I do have 3 Italian translation of this story and, although
nearly literal, they all differ in something to each other...

Which brings up another interesting matter, re-translations.

In the recent run of Barks reprints on "Zio Paperone", the Italian
publisher felt the need of "modernizing" the language used by the
characters, with very poor results, IMHO.

Are reprints re-translated in Holland in a more "modern" style ?
(How about Sweden, STEFAN ?)

>When I first saw an Italian comic, I was amazed that they used
>the $-sign on Scrooge's bin. And the characters even
>GRUNT and SNORT in (American) English!

We got a knack with onomatopoeia, you know... ;-)

But in the "Mountain Magic" story recently discussed MOE even
goes "AWRIGHT", in the Italian version, I mean.

>translating comics sure sounds like a fine job!

Er... are we perhaps making blind applications without even
realizing it ? ;-)

RICH, DAVID, MARCO, HARRY and anybody interested in
silly old FETHRY DUCK

I have been researching my own database for Al Hubbard
stories with Fethry and found a lot of 'em.
Here's a list of what I got from 1964-65, and my attempts to
associate story codes from the List's DB.
I'd be glad if somebody could help with the missing data.

Paperino e il fanatico igienista 12pp [FE's first]
DD, FE, LVD, Tabby TL 453 2/8/64
A New Way of Life (?) S 64008

Paperino e la tessitura della felicit=E0 11pp
DD, FE, various animals TL 459 13/9/64
Fethry makes a Coat for Donald (?) S 64024

Paperino e il mago dei maghi 9pp
DD ,FE ,Tabby TL 460 20/9/64
FE as Magician makes Tabby disappear, then himself

Paperino e la scuola del progresso 7pp
DD, FE, Tabby TL 461 2709/64
Fethry=B9s Liberal School (?) S 64051

Paperino e i tempi di programmazione 8pp
DD, FE, Tabby TL 463 11/10/64
Fast householding (?) S 64038

Paperino e la selvaggia traversata 9pp
DD, FE TL 466 1/11/64
FE with a pioneer coach

Paperino e il felino tutto sprint 7pp
DD, FE, Tabby TL 471 6/12/64
FE is convinced that Tabby is a rare cat, meets a tiger and
captures the cat bandit

Paperino, Paperoga e la Pop-Art 11pp
DD, FE, Tabby TL 471 6/12/64
Pop goes the Art (?) S 64066

Paperino e Malachia gatto da riporto 6pp
DD, FE, Tabby TL 473 20/12/64
FE goes duck hunting with Tabby (David talked about this one on #37)

Paperoga affarista indaffarato 8pp
DD, FE, Tabby, Hustler Duck TL 473 20/12/64
DD & FE buy rabbits from Hustler

Paperino e la colpa della fretta 10pp
DD, FE, DA (1 panel) AT 98 1/2/65
FE hurries DD's shopping

Paperino e la lunga notte insonne 8pp
DD, HDL, Tabby, Scrooge, GD (1 panel) AT 98 1/2/65
Early to bed! (This is an example of Tabby playing a prominent
role *without* Fethry and *with* both Scrooge and the nephews)

Malachia e l'idrofobia 7pp
DD, FE, Tabby TL 489 11/4/65
FE as a cat expert. Tabby's his victim

Paperoga conquistador oceanico 7pp
DD, FE, Tabby, a parrot TL 497 6/6/65
FE as yachtman "discovers" a whale

Paperoga chef rumoroso 7pp
DD, FE TL 504 25/7/65
FE as chef

Paperoga e il cruccio del singhiozzo 8pp
DD, FE, MOE, Joe TL 505 1/8/65
Mountain Magic X 4109 (S 64109 ?)

Paperoga incubo di Paperino 8pp
DD, FE, Tabby, an unnamed duck-girl, her she-cat TL 505 1/8/65
FE has a wedding agency, DD and Tabby are the victims

Paperoga e le cascate del Niagra 9pp
DD, FE, an owl-ranger TL 506 8/8/65
FE at the Niagra Falls with the customary barrel

Paperoga rude pioniere 7pp
DD, FE, Tabby, a bear TL 507 15/8/65
Camping in the wilderness

Paperoga Oscar della sbadataggine 7pp
DD, FE, Tabby TL 508 22/8/65
FE as cab driver (Tabby needs the vet)

Paperino allo sbaraglio 12pp
DD, FE TL 508 22/8/65
FE patented sleuth chases a giant mechanical moth

Paperoga e la schiuma negli occhi 9pp
DD, FE, DA TL 516 17/10/65
Daisy's garden party (?) S 64136

The number of pages indicated is actually extrapolated from the 2 X 3
Italian layout into the 2 X 4 "original" (supposed) form for ease of
reference.

On "Mountain Magic", I believe both versions we have (TL and Gulf)
are "remounted" from the 2 X 4 layout, which would explain the cuts
in the version Rich showed us.
But the final panel puzzles me... If we "remount" the Italian version
we end up with the official 8 pages count, but there's no room left =
for
the richer in details, and bigger Gulf version... was that purposedly
redrawn for the Gulf edition ?

Cheers

Eta Beta

email to : (Email removed)
------------------------------------------
"Do you suffer from long-term memory loss ?"
"I don't remember..."
(Chumbawamba '97)
------------------------------------------

DAVE RAWSON:

> according to the 1996 National Science Board survey of scientific
> literacy (which also provided the previous statistic), 27% of
> adults in the United States still believe the Sun revolves around
> the Earth!

It's probably the same kind of people who do so because it says so in
the bible. If only these people would take the bible as the allegory
that it is, rather than take it literally, they'd be surprised to
find how much modern science is in accordance with the bible--in fact,
they're in total agreement!

NILS LID HJORT:

> PUBLIC LECTURE
> with the title
> HISTORY FALSIFICATION IN DONALD DUCK STORIES

Sounds intriguing. Any chance of posting some kind of summary of the talk?

I hope this is not something in the spirit of "How to Read Donald Duck"
(i.e., start with the conclusion, and then try to find evidence supporting
it). Although Disney comics present history in a very simplified way,
I'd never go as far as calling it falsified!
--
Kriton (e-mail: (Email removed))
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis
-----
"I've had enough excitement for a while; right now, a little boredom wouldn't
be amiss!"
----

BROR:

> Well.. If you should judge by the comics... Only by reading Barks
>himself seems to place Duckburg and Calisota in the general vincinity of
>Canada, Minnesota, California and Brasil... ;-)

Yes, Duckburg never seems to stay in one place, does it? Even in
consecutive episodes Barks would relocate Duckburg from the snow covered
midwest to a desert, near mountains, costal areas, etc. Perhaps the city
of Duckburg resides on its own geological plate that somehow flows through
surrounding areas so that its actual location is in constant flux. But how
could it do this without massive seismic destruction? Perhaps Gyro has
invented a way to temporarily liquify the earth at the margins of city so
that the land mass flow around Duckburg as it sails through the continent.

Another possibility is that we are seeing Duckburg from parallel universes
where it resides in a different locale in each universe. The ducks are
really "sliders" traveling through these universes from episode to episode.

Tryg

Tryg Helseth <(Email removed)>
"I wish they all could be Calisota Ducks!" - The Beach Drakes

In answer to Rich Pegasus:

Believe me, when I used the terms "USsers" and "Unitedstatians," I was trying
to be humorous. You know, "funny." I was not trying to be politically correct.
If anything, I was satirizing PC and its absurdities. The question of whether
denizens of the United States of America can properly be called "Americans" has
been discussed for as long as I can remember, and the usual answer has been
that since the USA was the first country to become independent in the Americas,
we got first dibs on the nomenclature and it's ours by right of tradition and
long usage. And since there isn't a really convenient word for us, and since
"America" has been a long-accepted informal short form of "United States of
America," "Americans" will do just fine. That seems as good an argument as any
to me.

--Dwight Decker

> DWIGHT DECKER:
> > if somebody is using the term "North America" as a general term for
> > where he lives, he's probably Canadian.
>
> This is an interesting topic considering the international component of
> this list. I have tried to be "Politically Correct" in most of my posts
> by using the phrase "in the States" or "USA" or "US"...of course the
> last
> two acronyms can be confused with "Uncle Scrooge Adventures" or "Uncle
> Scrooge", thus I use "U$" and "U$A" to distinguish the difference. I
> especially try not to use "American" (though I do find at times I have)
> since it completely ignores the fact that Canadians, Mexicans,
> Brazilians,
> El Salvadorans, etc. are all ALSO "Americans." However, in my personal
> polls of folks from every possible country in the world I've asked, "If
> you hear the term 'American' what country of origin do you believe it
> refers to?" The answer is ALWAYS "The United States." However, living
> in the USA, it is my experience that we have a large foreign national
> population, even in the workplace where I have even gotten in arguements
> about "who constitutes an American" and have been called "arrogant" for
> using the term specifically as an appellation to people and things
> originating in the USA. I have been told very plainly that we from the
> USA are the only folks in the world who do not have a real name for our
> people (and I certainly don't like "Unitedstatians", Dwight. I'm sure
> you
> just used that for convenience since it's not a real word). So, in
> order
> to be polite, and hopefully not cause a flurry of off-topic discussion
> here, is it generally acceptable by Canadians, Brazilians, and others in
> the Americas that the term "American" be used to mean "of/from the
> United
> States"? Are there any here who find this usage arrogant or
> distasteful?
> It would certainly be more comfortable for me to simply say "American"
> than trying to reform my sentences to accomodate "we in the USA" or
> "United States" (since I refuse to use the other terms I've heard and
> read:
> "Usans" and "Unitedstatians"). Again, this may seem like a silly
> question,
> but I am trying to respect my neighbors on this List with this inquirey.
>