Keskustelujen arkisto

Don:

> You keep listing birthyears for Donald and HDL and
> the other Ducks and saying these are *my* dates. Not really!
> I once showed
> someone a copy of my private notes on the Duck Family Tree

You also once posted an e-mail about this on DCML. Back then (in 1994 or so)
I collected your interesting e-mails, and we saved them on the DCML website.
The URL is:
http://stp.ling.uu.se/~starback/dcml/creators/rosa-on-himself.html#dates

and there it says, amongst others:

<<
I try to list the birth/death dates from my notes. [...] Other dates are
exact when there was a need to be, otherwise I didn't get fancy and I just
used 5 year increments, 1920, 1925, 1930 and so on. (I wouldn't say 1921 if
there was no specific reason to since I knew I might still change a date
here or there someday for some reason. If a date ends in a blank, that means
I figure the character lived well past 1967. If a date ends in a "19??",
that means I don't know when the critter died, but they must surely be as
cold as a carp by 1970!
>>

Then follows a list of characters with dates of birth and death.

Maybe some people read the list on that web page, without looking too
closely at the accompanying text.

--Harry.

Hi, all.

When Don Rose replied to my comments about meeting him at the Wondercon last year in Oakland, I didn’t respond for a couple of reasons. First, this site is supposed to be about ducks, not dicks, and I thought I had taken up enough time and space letting people know what to expect when they met him. Second, this site is supposed to be fun; the less time spend on unpleasantness, the better. Third, I said what I needed to say and didn’t see any reason to get into a spitting contest with Mr. Rosa. If he even chose to read and respond to my comments, I certainly didn’t expect him to agree with me, although I did expect he would tell the truth. After he’d had his say, I thought that would be the end of it.

Unfortunately, after Mr. Rosa responded to my comments, he chose to attack me a second time when I chose to participate in a discussion here about something that has nothing to do with him: the addresses and phone numbers of some of the ducks that were mentioned in stories by Carl Barks. Because he decided not only to tell you his side of our meeting, but to do it twice, both times in a vindictive and hurtful manner, I’m forced to take up my and your time to correct the errors and clear up the fallacies in his comments.

First, Mr. Rosa claims that our meeting took place two years ago. That is not true. It took place last year, at Wondercon 2000. I remember distinctly because two years ago, as much as I wanted to, I couldn’t attend Wondercon.

Second, Mr. Rosa states that I demanded that he do a color drawing of the ducks for me on the spot, immediately. That is a lie. I demanded no such thing of him. I demanded nothing of him. I went to Wondercon specifically to meet him, talk ducks and buy a drawing from him if I could; because in years past he did drawings for fans, it seemed a reasonable expectation. The drawings weren’t free, either. I got there to be in line at his table when the con opened because I’d be told (some would say warned) that if you didn’t get there early, he wouldn’t put you on the list of people for whom he’d do a drawing. When he said he wouldn’t do any drawings because someone might resell one on ebay, all I did was let him know how disappointed I was with his decision and how disappointed I thought his other fans would be, also. I demanded he do a drawing? I insisted he do a drawing? Picture me or anyone standing over Mr. Rosa, tied to his chair, forcing hi!
s hands to the paper and his pen
s into his hands, threatening him if he didn’t draw Scrooge or Donald or at least the nephews, and you can see how ridiculous is his statement that I demanded anything. If he equates disappointment with demand, that’s his business; I see the two as very different.

Third, Mr. Rosa states that even though he was sitting in Artist’s Alley -- which might cause some expectation that the artists there would be doing art – he doesn’t know of anyone else at Wondercon or any other show who does original sketches for fans. Anyone who has been to a comics convention, Wondercon or not, know that is not true. More of the artists than not draw or sell drawings, including, at one Wondercon or another, Mike Mignola, Shelly Moldoff and Vaughn Bode. I thought that was why the programs had spaces in them for autographs and sketches. Dave Stevens always is gracious in signing autographs. Carl Barks graciously signed posters, books, jigsaw puzzles, money bags, drawings, programs and currency, among other items fans then treasured.

Fourth, Mr. Rosa states I was forcibly ejected from the show. That is a lie. Mr. Rosa wasn’t there when I talked with the show’s managers, so he has no way to know what happened. If he enjoys presenting gossip as fact, that’s his business, but he should be aware of the damage it does to the person gossiping as well as the person the gossip is about.

What I did was find the management of the show, explained what happened and asked if I had a wrong understanding about Artist’s Alley. They said that their understanding also was that artists in Artist’s Alley would be doing art. They said they’d talk with Mr. Rosa about it. I don’t know whether they did or not. The manager saw how disappointed I was and asked if I’d like a refund. I said yes. He gave me a refund and I left. To me, that’s not being thrown out. If you think otherwise, you might ask whether or not Mr. Rosa was invited back to this year’s Wondercon; I don’t think he was there, but he can tell you if he was or why he wasn’t, if he so chooses.

Fifth, Mr. Rosa makes two very personal attacks on me as an individual to show that I’m wrong and he’s right – he can’t accept for a moment that we may simply see the same things differently. He calls me a boor, as if he’d know who I am from a single five minute conversation. Any first year logic student would recognize this as argumentum ad hominum. Instead of trying to disprove the truth of what I said -- which he can’t -- he attacks me for saying it. We can waste our time going back and forth about whether or not I’m guilty of boorish behavior, which is very different than saying I’m a boor. We also can go back and forth discussing whether I’m a boor or not. It really doesn’t matter. Neither the behavior or the personality, even if one or both were true, has anything with the truth or falsehood of what I said.

Then he says, what can you expect from someone who can’t spell. Same fallacy: my spelling ability doesn’t prove or disprove my statements. Worse, the most Mr. Rosa can make from the evidence is that I can’t type, not that I can’t spell – or that my spell check isn’t working. That’s irrelevant, too.

Sixth, Mr. Rosa insinuates, both in his first reply and again in his second email about this, that my statements can’t be true because I didn’t sign my name to my email. Actually, I thought that happened automatically and I’ll be careful of it in the future. Because my email address was included, it didn’t seem to matter, however. A number of people, including Mr. Rosa himself, were able to find me and send me emails. Except for Mr. Rosa’s email, they all shared similar experiences they’d had with Mr. Rosa at various events. If he or anyone else wants to use snail mail, they can write to me, William Price, 236 West Portal #450, San Francisco, CA 94127.

Seventh, Mr. Rosa implies that I can’t be right about anything I say because everyone he talked with about it agreed with him. This is another fallacy, argumentum ad populum, trying to win popular agreement to a conclusion by saying the conclusion’s right because it’s popular. That the majority agrees – and I don’t know if it does or not in this instance – doesn’t make the truth untrue and vice versa.

Seventh, Mr. Rosa says he won’t do any more drawings for fans because he’s afraid someone will sell one of them on ebay. You got me there. I’ve never sold anything on ebay, so no one can say I was trying to buy a drawing to resell at a profit, but I know others do, including one of the people Mr. Rosa mentioned in his email, who seems to put up for sale more Rosa drawings than anyone else. I’d think Mr. Rosa would be flattered that people are willing to buy his drawings at a premium, but obviously he’s not. I remember talking with a fan who’d bought a copy of the duck family tree poster, autographed by Mr. Rosa, for quite a bit of money – it’s one of his most prized and best loved possessions. He thought, when he told him about it, that Mr. Rosa’d be pleased, but just the opposite happened. Mr. Rosa was furious that whomever had it previously sold it to someone else.

The solution would be for Mr. Rosa to put his drawings on ebay himself, so fans who want them can buy them and he gets the retail – not the wholesale – price for them. They’re his work and his business what he wants to do with them. All I wanted was a drawing from an artist I admire of a character I love to hang on the wall and enjoy when I walked by it.

Finally, Mr. Rosa says we shouldn’t attack each other personally on this site – this in the same email where he writes that someone else has emotional problems because the person sees things differently than he does. I agree that no one should attack anyone else personally. If we see things differently, lets talk about those things or those differences. Not liking what someone did is very different from not liking the person. I didn’t like what Mr. Rosa did at Wondercon and I said so, first to him, to his face. I was disappointed and that’s what I told him. I had my feelings hurt and that’s what I told him. I said nothing about him as an individual, then or afterward. Did I hurt his feelings? I can’t speak to what he or anyone else is thinking or feeling unless they say something. All I can speak to is the fact that he sure didn’t care about my feelings, then or now. Based upon his statements in person and in print, he seems a bitter a!
nd myopic individual who believe
s he is being fleeced by his employers and exploited by his fans. He has yet to deny either of these conclusions.

You found me to write me before Don, so let’s not use the anonymity argument again. You can tell me anything you want. You can tell it to everyone on the site. You can tell it too the Marines. If you or anyone else wants to use snail mail, they can address their comments to

William Price
236 West Portal #450
San Francisco, CA 94127

Thanks, everyone. Happy ducks.

Hey, boy, we're havin' fun now, eh?

Helllo everyone!

At long last, I've been able to add a Don Rosa section
to my site, "Of Mouse and Ducks" (the following line
should be read thinking of Richard Attenborough
in "Jurassic Park" & the corresponding music, thank you):
Welcome to "The Don Rosa Papers" !

You will find information about the pages in "The Daily
War-Drum", where all the news is, but here's a description
of what the DRP consist of.

You access them by clicking on the "King of the Klondike"
icon in the (yellow) contents frame.
This will take you to the main page.

I believe you'll recognize the illustration.
Everything on the picture is by Don Rosa, to the exclusion
of a very very few pixels I needed to complete the image.
The objects were completed using portions of the original
drawing, with the utmost respect for the art, down to the
tiniest detail.

There, you will find-- rather, you will *have to* find 4 links
to 4 sections. (That's what the scribbling in the bottom left
says; I'll brighten it up.)

The first two are illustrated indexes of some of Don Rosa's
stories (with links to larger pictures), including the
"Life & Times" chapters.

The third link will lead you to the first of a series of pages
in the making; this one is about Time Travel and is based on
an e-mail I sent Don Rosa and his replies (reprinted by
permission).
This link is less obvious than the first two.

As for the last section... I think it'll be the new treasure hunt
(no answer to the last two quizes, by the way? See PS).
It's pretty easy to find, anyway.
And this I'm most curious to read your comments on.
It could certainly be enhanced and made more dazzling,
but I didn't have time to get acquainted with the necessary
java script commands.
Remarks, comments, criticism, suggestions, questions,
anything, welcome!

I hope you will enjoy the DRP.
Best wishes,

Olivier

PS # 0:
If you like M&D and bookmark it, please do so from the
starting page (with the counter). There's absolutely no profit
whatsoever. It's just I like to know if anyone visits it at all.
Thanks!

PS # 1:
If you don't have time to look for the links, ask me.

PS # 2-- quizes:
1/ Quiz # 5a (Easy)
"GCKFPT !"

2/ Quiz #5b (Easy?)
"There's been dirty work at the woodpile!"

The most recent issue of Egmont's "Finally back!" series
is out. Previous 100-page issues were (1) Fethry Duck,
(2) Moby Duck, (3) Ludwig von Drake and(4) John D. Rockerduck;
this fifth issue features Super Goof.

The three-page preface, by a certain professor Nils Lid Hjort,
has various illustrations pertaining to the topic of
man's old and new dreams of flying. We see Superman,
Otto Lilienthal, other flying contraptions (don't do this
at home), and (gasp) two naked men (in beautifully
rendered colours). Would this be the first time in
Disney comics history? Will there be angry letters written
to Egmont and Disney? Will they be sued by fretting parents?

Nils Lid Hjort

I can't help involving myself in this discussion... Just a few notes.

William Price wrote:

> Then he says, what can you expect from someone who
> can’t spell. Same fallacy: my spelling ability
> doesn’t prove or disprove my statements. Worse, the
> most Mr. Rosa can make from the evidence is that I
> can’t type, not that I can’t spell – or
> that my spell check isn’t working. That’s irrelevant, too.

When you write a letter that is meant to be read by hundreds of people, you
can be expected to put some effort in the readability of your text. That's
just a matter of respect from the writer to the readers.

> Sixth, Mr. Rosa insinuates, both in his first reply and again
> in his second email about this, that my statements
> can’t be true because I didn’t sign my name to my
> email.

I don't recall exactly what Don's point was, but my personal view is that I
prefer letters to be signed by real names. A name like "HorizonHse" looks
like a pseudonym. Even if the sender can be reached by e-mail, it still
gives the impression that he wants to hide something. Putting your real name
in the "sender" line, and/or in the signature, takes away this impression.

> A number of people, including Mr. Rosa himself, were
> able to find me and send me emails. Except for Mr.
> Rosa’s email, they all shared similar experiences
> they’d had with Mr. Rosa at various events.

Of course, all the hundreds of people who did *not* have similar experiences
didn't have a reason to write to you in private mail!

> Seventh, Mr. Rosa implies that I can’t be right about
> anything I say because everyone he talked with about it
> agreed with him.

Yep, you're right there. He uses phrases like "We all know, that...". Don
Rosa is human, and makes mistakes from time to time.

> I remember talking with a fan who’d
> bought a copy of the duck family tree poster, autographed by
> Mr. Rosa, for quite a bit of money – it’s one of
> his most prized and best loved possessions. He thought, when
> he told him about it, that Mr. Rosa’d be pleased, but
> just the opposite happened. Mr. Rosa was furious that
> whomever had it previously sold it to someone else.

You can't judge his reaction if you don't know the background. Maybe Rosa
*gave away* this poster as a *personal gift*. I know *I* wouldn't be very
pleased if I saw something on sale that I gave away shortly before. It's
like the receiver didn't like the gift.

--Harry.

FRANCESCO WROTE:

> I'll sneak in here to say what I think about this matter. I'm no "fine
art"
> expert, I think that Barks' oils are pretty nice, and that's enough for
me.
> Had I the money (lots and lots) and had to choose between a Picasso and a
> Barks (repeat: LOTS. So much money that I wouldn't be interested in
resell)
> I'd certainly choose a Barks... but for what's behind the oil itself, that
is
> the story that inspired it.
>

AND I REPLY:

Francesco hints at what I believe to be the root of the matter. The
paintings are nice, but they don't mean anything without knowledge of the
characters and the events. In other words, the paintings are derived from
the stories and cannot stand alone. The wonderful comic tales, however, can
easily endure without knowledge of the paintings.

I like Barks' oil work personally, and in my imaginary, perfect world, I
envision them as the "covers" to the comics I love.

Dan Shane
(danshane at bellsouth.net)