Keskustelujen arkisto

Hi!

----- From me:
>> can not remember
>> | having seen such a cross-over story in norwegian DD before!

----Jørgen commented:
> For how long have you been reading it?
Long enough :-)

I seem to have misused the word "cross-over" here! I didn't mean the fact
that both mice and ducks appear together, which I guess you are right in
assuming is the meaning of "cross-over". This has been done lot of times
before in all sorts of combinations, as you point out. I was thinking about
this thing I have seen in super-hero-comics in the US, where a storyline
continues between different magazines, so you have to buy several issues of
different magazines to get the whole story. This would have been the case if
e.g. part two of the stone story had been in MM instead of in DD (in fact,
there might have been an extra part in MM already for all I know!). But of
course, this beeing a sales trick, they announce it _very_ clearly, which
has not been the case with the stone story.

Jørgen said about part three that it was a good story on its own. It
certainly was one of the better ones in that respect, but especially the two
first parts where rather strange as stand-alone stories, I think. And I see
we agree on Vicar's mice, that was the story I was referring to with an
odd-locking Mickey (or MM ancestor, to be precise).

But don't get me wrong, all-in-all I really like this story and look forward
to see the end! But knowing that many norwegians buy DD on an irregular
basis, I think it is a little surprising that the editors are now allowing
more than one continuation story at the same time over so many numbers.

Have a nice celebration of the fact that all the numbers on your digital
watch change at the same time!

P.S.: I suddenly realized my last statement above wasn't entirely correct,
but I leave that to you as an exercise :-)

Knut

Hello!

Most of the italian stories I have read, are thru the norwegian pocket-books
that are frequently published. Some of the stuff are just average stories,
but sometimes a story stands out. I think such is the case of a story
published in the latest pocket-book, called 'Mikke Mus og tidens flod',
meaning 'Mickey Mouse and the flood of time'. The code is I TL 2243-1 and
original title is 'Topolino e il fiume del tempo'. It's written by Francesco
Artibani and drawn by Corrado Mastantuono. The story's about Mickey and Pete
becoming partners to rescue 'Steamboat Willie'. The story is very
well-written with good and funny dialogue between Mickey and Pete, and it's
also well-drawn and shows great facial expressions on both Mickey and Pete.
What's most interesting about the story, is the fact that Pete's actually
interested in becoming friends with Mickey. This is shown several places in
the story. At one point they are discussing Goofy, and it's quite clear that
Pete envy Mickey's and Goofy's friendship. Pete also states: 'If only you
could call me sometimes, not just asking 'what did you do saturday night?'
You never asks 'Do you have any plans for tomorrow night'.' This is giving
Mickey something to think about. Of course Mickey and Pete are fighting a
lot in this story, but Pete seems sincere when he wants Mickeys friendship.
I must say that I liked this story a lot, and Pete actually seemed like a
three-dimensional character. What can be discussed, of course, is wether
some sort of friendship between him and Mickey is the right direction to
develop this character. Do we want a Pete, still with some rough edges, but
struggling to be a good guy, or do we want the bad, evil villain, maybe even
with his peg back? What do the rest of you think about this?

Also, the fact that Steamboat Willie was important early in Mickey's and
Pete's career, makes me wonder how well this story interacts with the
original movie. I have never seen this, but maybe some of you have seen both
the movie and this story, and can say something about this.

A completely different subject: Some time ago someone wanted to know foreign
names of a character called 'Naevenyttig' in Denmark. I finally looked this
up, and he was called the boring name 'Gaaserud' in Norway. The word 'gaas'
meaning 'goose'.

--- Halvor.

Well, well... Just as you thought you were safe from anymore talk about the
Gottfredeson dailies, here I go again...

First of all: Thanks to all you who contributed previously. I have read
your answers many times, but still think there are some loose ends. -I
hope you will take just *one* more round... :-)

My idea is that while this subject is still on the track, we might as well
finish it. So *everybody* that believe they could help, please do! This of
course for "historical purposes", only.

From the information given by you all I have done a little reconstruction.
For your entertainment I have inserted small puzzles :-). I know some of
you will say: "Heck, I just answered that question !!!" Well, maybe, but
then someone *else* answered something that may have contradicted this
answer. (Or me and my suspicious mind just doubt it. ;-) )

Here goes:

At the end of the 1970's Thomas Andrae acquires proof sheets from Horst
Schroeder (who got these from a Swiss collector, who again -probably- got
these from an Italian archive). These proofs should cover the period from
1946 to 1955 (-right?). Other proofs were acquired from Bill Wright. Mickey
fan card from 1931 supplied by Andrae, himself. All other strips from 1930
up to the earliest of Bill Wright's proofs were reprinted from newspaper
prints.

Q1: How far back did the proof sheets from Bill Wright go?

So after Thomas Andrae had collected these strips/proof sheets, the first
20 sets were printed in Arizona by Byron Ericson.

Q2: When was this?

Q3: Were there 3 strips missing in the original 20 sets (and 3 strips
printed double) or did this happen in later prints, only?

Q4: Were all these original 20 sets bound? -and were they all hard cover?

Allegedly Horst Schroeder buys 2 sets: one bound and one unbound.

Q5: Was the unbound set really an *extra* set -and were there more extras
done?

Q6: Was this deal between Ericson/Andrae and Schroeder lined up at time of
print, and at that time known that Schroeder would do a larger run of sets?
If so it sounds a little strange that Schroeder did not do his prints at
the same time.

Schroeder's sets are portfolios, and the print run is limited.

Q7: Did Schroeder do 50 complete sets, only? And were the number stated
anywhere in the prints?

Q8: Is it some of these sets that are now resting in some Swedish basement,
because Disney (or someone else) has withdrawn the permission to sell
these?

Q9: When did Schroeder do these prints?

Peter Orban of " Comic Book Club Germany" start up a project similar to
Schroeder's All 26 years are to be reprinted as portfolios. The print run
is 500 copies of each portfolio. The project is stopped after 12 - 14
portfolios has been printed.

Q10: Was this stopped for financial reasons or was it due to Disney
withdrawing the licence (as with CBL)?

Q11: Were these printed from one of the original 20 sets (as Schroeder's
were), or were Peter Orban's done from a "second" generation print
(Schroeders?)?

Q12: How many years did Orban do exactly, and when did he do them?

Q13: Was this project finished by Horst Schroeder or not? and if so did he
continue printing the strips in portfolios or did he switch to bound books?

Some "loose" questions:

About the John Nichols edition of 200 sets:

Q12: Was this done from one of the original 20 sets, or from a "second"
generation print?

Q13: When was it done?

Some of the books "Wunderwurm" has are bound printed in 300 copies in East
Germany (- are these soft- or hard cover?). Where do they fit in? Were they
done only for *some* of the years in the span 1930 - 1955 or were there a
complete set done in 300 bound copies. If so -who did this set ??? Were
*these* really bootlegs as an East German publisher would probably not have
sleepless nights, over violating a print ban from the "capitalist Disney".

As you see I think there are still some unanswered questions regarding
these books/sets. I hope you guys will (again) help answering these!

As a little special it seems that "Wunderwurm's" set consists of a mix-up
of *3* editions: Orban's portfolios (500 copies), bound books (300 copies)
and the very first edition (20 copies) !!!

Or what????

I think it is worth trying to solve the mysteries about these various
editions. In contrast to the CBL -both in b&w and color -and even in
various languages- the Mickey Mouse dailies collections have lived a rather
quiet life. Despite being a Disney fan for more than 25 years I had not
even *heard* about these until 2 years ago -and then only as a vague rumour
that such a collection existed.

Best regards

Poul Frokjar, Denmark

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> The Lentils of Babylonia is one of my most-beloved story

==========================SPOILER WARNING=================================

Me, too. I guess what I like about this story is that it starts and
finishes with Scrooge defeated, with only a promise that things will
turn out right, unlike the often used in Barks' stories "so Scrooge gets
his money back and everything is as it was before". (In a similar vein,
the accompanying article in Komix describes how Scarpa made a non-Barks
story using all-Barks ingredients.)

Despite this, I can't help being extremely confused by the story.
I've read it in three different languages [Greek (two versions), English
and French], and all offer different explanations as to what the Beagle's
scheme for selling the same lentils over and over was. The Greek version
has a ring of buyers selling the lentils to the next buyer because they
taste awful. The french version has the Beagles taking advantage of
currency exchange rates, that allow them to buy back their own product
and still make a profit. Finally, the american version has the Beagles
selling the lentils for "worthless" dust, which only they know is gold
dust, and buying them back for money. The Greek version doesn't make much
sense (why would buyers, who found the lentils awful, want to buy more
shipments, only to can get rid of them again?) The French version does
make some sense (though I would think that if you go to the bank and start
exchanging your money from one currency to another, by the time you get
your own currency back, you'll end up with a lot less that you started
with). Even so, it still doesn't explain why the various intermediaries
would want to play the Beagles' game. Finally, the american version,
although it does sort of make sense, it would appear that it is an attempt
to make sense out of a nonsense premise. The american version even tries
to explain how the Beagles could dictate policy to Scrooge, even though
they only owned one share of their own company, by changing it to 50%
of the company. Although this does explain things (including how on
earth could the Beagles let Scrooge buy 99.9% of their own company,
which would require Scrooge to buy some of their own stock), it plays
down the fact that, blinded by greed, Scrooge gave his entire fortune
for one worthless stock.

I'd love to know what was in the original version, and if it actually
makes sense there.

==========================END SPOILER=================================

Kriton (e-mail: (Email removed))
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis
-----
"Well, Ivan, you're the one in the navigator's seat. What are you doing?"
"Sir, I am instructed to keep this seat warm until Chekov returns."
-----

>Here goes:
>
>At the end of the 1970's Thomas Andrae acquires proof sheets from Horst
>Schroeder (who got these from a Swiss collector, who again -probably- got
>these from an Italian archive). These proofs should cover the period from
>1946 to 1955 (-right?). Other proofs were acquired from Bill Wright. Mickey
>fan card from 1931 supplied by Andrae, himself. All other strips from 1930
>up to the earliest of Bill Wright's proofs were reprinted from newspaper
>prints.
>
>Q1: How far back did the proof sheets from Bill Wright go?
>
>So after Thomas Andrae had collected these strips/proof sheets, the first
>20 sets were printed in Arizona by Byron Ericson.
>
>Q2: When was this?
>
>Q3: Were there 3 strips missing in the original 20 sets (and 3 strips
>printed double) or did this happen in later prints, only?
>
>Q4: Were all these original 20 sets bound? -and were they all hard cover?
>
>Allegedly Horst Schroeder buys 2 sets: one bound and one unbound.
>
>Q5: Was the unbound set really an *extra* set -and were there more extras
>done?
>
>Q6: Was this deal between Ericson/Andrae and Schroeder lined up at time of
>print, and at that time known that Schroeder would do a larger run of sets?
>If so it sounds a little strange that Schroeder did not do his prints at
>the same time.
>
>Schroeder's sets are portfolios, and the print run is limited.
>
>Q7: Did Schroeder do 50 complete sets, only? And were the number stated
>anywhere in the prints?
>
>Q8: Is it some of these sets that are now resting in some Swedish basement,
>because Disney (or someone else) has withdrawn the permission to sell
>these?
>
>Q9: When did Schroeder do these prints?
>
>
>Peter Orban of " Comic Book Club Germany" start up a project similar to
>Schroeder's All 26 years are to be reprinted as portfolios. The print run
>is 500 copies of each portfolio. The project is stopped after 12 - 14
>portfolios has been printed.
>
>Q10: Was this stopped for financial reasons or was it due to Disney
>withdrawing the licence (as with CBL)?
>
>Q11: Were these printed from one of the original 20 sets (as Schroeder's
>were), or were Peter Orban's done from a "second" generation print
>(Schroeders?)?
>
>Q12: How many years did Orban do exactly, and when did he do them?
>
>Q13: Was this project finished by Horst Schroeder or not? and if so did he
>continue printing the strips in portfolios or did he switch to bound books?
>
>
>Some "loose" questions:
>
>About the John Nichols edition of 200 sets:
>
>Q12: Was this done from one of the original 20 sets, or from a "second"
>generation print?
>
>Q13: When was it done?
>
>Some of the books "Wunderwurm" has are bound printed in 300 copies in East
>Germany (- are these soft- or hard cover?). Where do they fit in? Were they
>done only for *some* of the years in the span 1930 - 1955 or were there a
>complete set done in 300 bound copies. If so -who did this set ??? Were
>*these* really bootlegs as an East German publisher would probably not have
>sleepless nights, over violating a print ban from the "capitalist Disney".
>
>
>As you see I think there are still some unanswered questions regarding
>these books/sets. I hope you guys will (again) help answering these!
>
>
>As a little special it seems that "Wunderwurm's" set consists of a mix-up
>of *3* editions: Orban's portfolios (500 copies), bound books (300 copies)
>and the very first edition (20 copies) !!!
>
>Or what????
>
>
>I think it is worth trying to solve the mysteries about these various
>editions. In contrast to the CBL -both in b&w and color -and even in
>various languages- the Mickey Mouse dailies collections have lived a rather
>quiet life. Despite being a Disney fan for more than 25 years I had not
>even *heard* about these until 2 years ago -and then only as a vague rumour
>that such a collection existed.
>

Well, I think I'd better put in my two bits.
I was there when Horst Schroeder put out his portfolio and all. I don't
remember exactly when this happened, but I do remember where I lived at the
time, so I guess it was the early 80'es. I may be able to pinpoint it more
accurately by looking through some old correspondence.
I was told that Horst Schroeder was going to publish "The Complete Daily
Strip Adventures of Mickey Mouse 1930-1955", and though I had serious (and
well-founded) doubts about the reliability of H.S. and his ability to
complete this multi-year project, I decided to jump into it with some of my
friends, and I organized buying five sets (#11-#15, I believe, #15 is in my
collection). The price was horrendous!
12 years were issued as bound volumes (soft cover). These were 1934-1936,
1938-1941, 1948-1952. The cover of these is brownish, and on the back it
says

Verein Kultur der Völker Leipzig
Printed and manufactured in the German Democratic Republic
Printrun limited to not over 300 copies

I doubt if they ever did as many as 300 copies, but then again the leftovers
may be what can be found in a Swedish basement or whatever.

The remaining years were printed as portfolios in red-orange sleeves. On the
back of these it says

COMIC BUCH CLUB GERMANY
SAMMLER AUSGABE LIMITIERT AUF 500 EXEMPLARE

In the case of these I seriously doubt that more than at most 50 copies were
done.

The year 1937 contains duplicate prints of the strips 2-15, 2-16, and 2-17,
and the strips 2-18, 2-19, 2-20 are missing. This may be due to the fact
that the five strips 2-15 through 2-19 look very much alike, all having MM,
Goofy and Doctor Einmug tied up in chairs.
Anyway, I have a copy of the missing strips, copied from original newspaper
strips owned by a friend of mine. With his permission I guess it would be
possible to upload images of the missing strips.
As far as I know - and at least my friend would notice - these are the only
strips missing from the entire run.

Most years were printed in good quality, with three strips per page printed
as large as possible. 1937 was horrible with the 3 strips missing and with
all strips shrunk to cover only about 80% of the area of the page.

BTW it is possible that one of "my" five copies is still for sale at

Pegasus
Nørre Farimagsgade 53
1364 København K
Danmark
phone +45 33 32 56 50

My conclusion to some of your questions is that Horst didn't finish the job
himself, but he took what he needed from Orban's project - or maybe Orban
just took over Horst's project (including the unsold copies?) and printed
the remaining years.

- Martin

Martin, Stefan:

Please try to keep a quoted message as small as possible. Keep only the
lines that are essential for the understanding of your own reply. Otherwise,
the DCML digests will mostly contain of the same messages, quoted in its
entirety over and over again.

--Harry.

Hi all, Hi Don,

I just wanted to share with you the nice news that the German
translators imho did a very swell job when translating Rosas Kalevala-
story (though the German "Die Jagd nach der Goldmuehle" (Quest for
the Goldmill) doesn't reflect the depth of the story, instead sounds
like something technical rather than mythological (at least to me).
But I can't think of a better title either. :-))

All the mytholgical speeches are separated from "normal" speech by a
different lettering,and it mostly keeps a certain rhyme (4 stresses
(right English word for jambus/jamben???) per line).
Besides, the wording in the rhyme sounds quite old-fashioned and
suiting, though I doubt some (few) words - though uncommon - were in
use in older times, for example Glubscher, Gucken, Foerderung...

but these are only few nitpickings in many, many lines of very nicely
trimmed, old-fashioned speech with uncommon words that can be
understood, but would only few think of when being put in the place
of the translator. congrats!

And besides I appreciate very much that again Germany does not lower
the level of speech to a supposed "childish" level and thus taking a
big part of fascination off the story.

P.S.: Really no one willing to spend some time and using his/her
fantasy on a draft sketch for a disney tattoo as mentioned some
digests ago???

Soeren

Soeren Schridde

--- keine Regierung ist gewillt, ueber den Tellerrand
hinauszublicken, weil der Teller allein ihren Machterhalt
garantiert. Rudolf Augstein, 1998 ---

Martinistr. 52, 49078 Osnabrueck, Germany, Earth
eMail: (Email removed)
(2nd: (Email removed))
Tel./Fax: Acc.Code+ (0)541/150764

at my parents':
Luisenweg 33, 38302 Wolfenbuettel, Germany, Earth
Tel.: Acc.Code+ (0)5331/978268

I for one would love to see the old Black Pete back....with or without
the pegleg. That part doesnt really matter to me. In recent years there
have been stories written that have attempted to bring the "spunk" back
to Mickey, often using characters from Gottfredson stories, and while
these stories are worlds better than many newer Mouse stories, they seem
to be missing something, at least the American printings seem to. (No
offense is meant if anyone on the list has been involved with production
of these stories.....I've been known to put my foot in my mouth at times)
It seems to me that the problem is that these stories are generally very
short, and Gottfredson's stories, when printed in book form, almost
always are *much* longer, usually around 70 pages or more. I think
giving Pete a more traditional attitude toward Mickey would be a step in
the right direction. Of course, then again, this new story and attitude
is very interesting, but overall it seems to have limited potential.

On another note, I think Steamboat Willie (the cartoon, not the person
who posts on this list:-)) is included in the video "The Spirit Of
Mickey". But I've not actually seen the video, only the box. Has anyone
seen this? Does it print *full* cartoons, or is it simply a compilation
of clips? Many videos of the classic shorts are very hard to find these
days. It seems that with Mouseworks and all, they would be re-releasing
some of these.
~~~Rodney.

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