>proper word balloons in cartoons
This is little bit off topic, but well.... The whole idea is a bit stupid:
that in order to be a proper comic it should have speech balloons. That
drops off Hogart's Tarzan, Foster's Prince Val and others. You could also
claim that a proper movie has to have sound. Chaplin and other silent films
wouldn't be then movies at all. The use of narrative captions is just a
different way, bit old fashioned technique, but it is still a comic. IMO.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kyl? 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
?? Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
?? Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
?? Kvaak-sarjakuvaportaali:
http://www.kvaak.fi
...............................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on a cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger - kaikki yst?v?t klikkauksen p??ss?! Lataa t?st? ilmaiseksi.
http://www.msn.fi/viestintapalvelut/Messenger
Author
Topic: 200310
(424 messages)
Timo Ronkainen
Pothole invented the First Comic ?
Message 256 -
2003-10-17 at 15:29:37
Marco Barlotti
Sonny Seagull
Message 257 -
2003-10-17 at 15:57:59
At 12.02 17/10/2003 +0200, Olaf Solstrand <olaf at andebyonline.com> wrote:
> > 31) Sonny Seagull = D 96408 "Free Spirits" Nov. 7, 1997 ?
>
>According to the home pages of Norwegian Donald Duck & Co., very little is
>known about the creation of Sonny, but that he may have been created in Italy
Certainly he was not created in Italy!
Marco
(mantainer of the Italian story files)
> > 31) Sonny Seagull = D 96408 "Free Spirits" Nov. 7, 1997 ?
>
>According to the home pages of Norwegian Donald Duck & Co., very little is
>known about the creation of Sonny, but that he may have been created in Italy
Certainly he was not created in Italy!
Marco
(mantainer of the Italian story files)
Don Rosa
DCML Digest Issue 36
Message 258 -
2003-10-17 at 16:26:15
> From: "Olivier" <mouse-ducks at wanadoo.fr>
> "THE ADVENTURES OF OBADIAH OLDBUCK
> The First American Comic Book. Originally published in 1842,
> more than half a century before the creation of Yellow Kid!
> In my (short) research on comic strips a couple of years ago, I
> had found a
> reference to Tvpffer's as the first comic. As the name suggests, it was a
> European "comic", entitled "Histoires en Estampes", published in
> Switzerland
> in 1846-7.
> The next comic work was Wilhelm Busch's "Max und Moritz" (1860-70), in
> Germany.
> Anyway, this might help solve the dilemma (having Pothole meet Tvpffer?).
Yes, I'm aware that comics historians amuse themselves by trying to discover
an earlier comic strip than their peers know of, and it's interesting. But I
personally don't regard those things as comics. They are certainly
forerunners, but so is anything with words and pictures. These 1840-1890
things were a series of normal magazine illustrations with captions, or
sometimes dialogue type-set above a speaker with a line drawn to it. You
could make a case for any children's picture book with a series of
illustrations telling a story to be "a comic book", but I don't buy that. I
have a hard enough time accepting the idea that The Yellow Kid is the first
comic character when he wasn't in a strip and had no word balloon other than
his nightshirt, but he at least appeared in newspapers where comic art was
born. The style of art in these antique "comics" was realistic, or
caricaturistic at best (worst?), very scratchy and dense, like the art that
newspapers had in lieu of photographs or like the political cartoons of the
time. To me, just lining a bunch of them up into a string is not the
creation of the comic strip. True comic art, with that particular style of
simple line art & word balloons & such, developed on the comics pages of the
newspapers around 1900 and the first comic books were the reprintings of
popular newspaper in hardback books soon thereafter, which is where the
American expression "comic book" came from (even when referring to a
magazine). But the thingies that I hold dear and which have the misnomer of
comic "books" are the comic periodical magazines that appeared around the
mid-30's -- that's when the promo sponsors shifted the target audience from
adults to kids with dimes. Those would be the "comic books" that I would
want to have Pothole invent, but as I said, it won't work.
If you try to extend the creation of comic strips back any further, and
insist that any sequential series of illustrations telling a story is a
"comic", there's no way to stop -- you'd zip right on past the
picture-stories on the Great Pyramids and arrive at the tales of an Ice Age
mammoth hunt on the walls of a cave.
Anyway, involving Pothole in the invention of comics would be so complicated
and problematic that I'm sure I won't attempt it. I'd need to go into an
explanation of the history of comics, describing all I've mentioned above,
and the readers, not being comics collectors or scholars, would be beyond
caring. I can easily leave it at where I ended the last Pothole appearance,
with him inventing comic books in his mind. Maybe that's as much of that
"gag" as needs to be.
> "THE ADVENTURES OF OBADIAH OLDBUCK
> The First American Comic Book. Originally published in 1842,
> more than half a century before the creation of Yellow Kid!
> In my (short) research on comic strips a couple of years ago, I
> had found a
> reference to Tvpffer's as the first comic. As the name suggests, it was a
> European "comic", entitled "Histoires en Estampes", published in
> Switzerland
> in 1846-7.
> The next comic work was Wilhelm Busch's "Max und Moritz" (1860-70), in
> Germany.
> Anyway, this might help solve the dilemma (having Pothole meet Tvpffer?).
Yes, I'm aware that comics historians amuse themselves by trying to discover
an earlier comic strip than their peers know of, and it's interesting. But I
personally don't regard those things as comics. They are certainly
forerunners, but so is anything with words and pictures. These 1840-1890
things were a series of normal magazine illustrations with captions, or
sometimes dialogue type-set above a speaker with a line drawn to it. You
could make a case for any children's picture book with a series of
illustrations telling a story to be "a comic book", but I don't buy that. I
have a hard enough time accepting the idea that The Yellow Kid is the first
comic character when he wasn't in a strip and had no word balloon other than
his nightshirt, but he at least appeared in newspapers where comic art was
born. The style of art in these antique "comics" was realistic, or
caricaturistic at best (worst?), very scratchy and dense, like the art that
newspapers had in lieu of photographs or like the political cartoons of the
time. To me, just lining a bunch of them up into a string is not the
creation of the comic strip. True comic art, with that particular style of
simple line art & word balloons & such, developed on the comics pages of the
newspapers around 1900 and the first comic books were the reprintings of
popular newspaper in hardback books soon thereafter, which is where the
American expression "comic book" came from (even when referring to a
magazine). But the thingies that I hold dear and which have the misnomer of
comic "books" are the comic periodical magazines that appeared around the
mid-30's -- that's when the promo sponsors shifted the target audience from
adults to kids with dimes. Those would be the "comic books" that I would
want to have Pothole invent, but as I said, it won't work.
If you try to extend the creation of comic strips back any further, and
insist that any sequential series of illustrations telling a story is a
"comic", there's no way to stop -- you'd zip right on past the
picture-stories on the Great Pyramids and arrive at the tales of an Ice Age
mammoth hunt on the walls of a cave.
Anyway, involving Pothole in the invention of comics would be so complicated
and problematic that I'm sure I won't attempt it. I'd need to go into an
explanation of the history of comics, describing all I've mentioned above,
and the readers, not being comics collectors or scholars, would be beyond
caring. I can easily leave it at where I ended the last Pothole appearance,
with him inventing comic books in his mind. Maybe that's as much of that
"gag" as needs to be.
KUR
DCML Digest Issue 35
Message 259 -
2003-10-17 at 17:53:02
> No, I can use Della if I found a reason to.
I wonder what is Della Charecter (personality)? Did she is/was like hear
Brother Donald? Or more like here chlidren Huey Duey and Luey? Or maby
(Glup!) like hear Mother Hortense?
> I'd also like to use Gladstone's
> parents if I *first* had a story where they'd fit...
Did Gladstone's dad have olsow a Lucky gift/power like his whife and Son?
Yours
Maciek
I wonder what is Della Charecter (personality)? Did she is/was like hear
Brother Donald? Or more like here chlidren Huey Duey and Luey? Or maby
(Glup!) like hear Mother Hortense?
> I'd also like to use Gladstone's
> parents if I *first* had a story where they'd fit...
Did Gladstone's dad have olsow a Lucky gift/power like his whife and Son?
Yours
Maciek
Olivier
DCML Digest Issue 36 -- Pothole & comics
Message 260 -
2003-10-17 at 19:07:44
First, thanks to Steven & Timo for their replies & remarks on comics-- a
reasonably not-too off-topic topic, I think; and we can always tie it to the
first Disney comics; I remember an article by Bruce Hamitlon in WDC&S on the
first MM magazines.
Any advice regarding books on the subject (comics history, I mean) is
welcome! I know such names as Blackbeard & Goulart, but don't have any
book-- I only borrowed them at the library.
And I definitely will have to order "Obadiah" from Bud Plant, then. What was
the other store you referred to, Steve (please)?
Don Rosa:
>>>But the thingies that I hold dear and which have the misnomer of
>>> comic "books" are the comic periodical magazines that appeared around
the
>>> mid-30's -- that's when the promo sponsors shifted the target audience
from
>>> adults to kids with dimes. Those would be the "comic books" that I would
>>> want to have Pothole invent, but as I said, it won't work.
Of course! Sorry, part of my brain wasn't working. I just thought of this
"first comic book" I had seen on Bud Plant, and completely overlooked the
fact you were naturally thinking of such "comic books" as WDC&S. Well, it
did make for an interesting little discussion.
>>> If you try to extend the creation of comic strips back any further, and
>>> insist that any sequential series of illustrations telling a story is a
>>> "comic", there's no way to stop -- you'd zip right on past the
>>> picture-stories on the Great Pyramids and arrive at the tales of an Ice
Age
>>> mammoth hunt on the walls of a cave.
Comics history books naturally evoke such pictograms, but here's a reference
to an essay by one of the very founders of the comic book (I'm sure Don,
Steven & Timo and many other members already know it):
"Narrative Illustration: The Story of the Comics",
by M.C. Gaines (father of Bill, who created the horror comics) (1942);
reprinted in "Tales of Terror!-- The complete compendium of all the
incredible old EC Comics [...]",
by Fred Von Bernewitz & Grant Geissman,
published by Fantagraphics & Gemstone.
>>> Anyway, involving Pothole in the invention of comics would be so
complicated
>>> and problematic that I'm sure I won't attempt it. [...]
>>> I can easily leave it at where I ended the last Pothole appearance,
>>> with him inventing comic books in his mind. Maybe that's as much of that
>>> "gag" as needs to be.
Indeed; it's a nice suplot-gag. I hope you will eventually think of another
story featuring Pothole.
Olivier
reasonably not-too off-topic topic, I think; and we can always tie it to the
first Disney comics; I remember an article by Bruce Hamitlon in WDC&S on the
first MM magazines.
Any advice regarding books on the subject (comics history, I mean) is
welcome! I know such names as Blackbeard & Goulart, but don't have any
book-- I only borrowed them at the library.
And I definitely will have to order "Obadiah" from Bud Plant, then. What was
the other store you referred to, Steve (please)?
Don Rosa:
>>>But the thingies that I hold dear and which have the misnomer of
>>> comic "books" are the comic periodical magazines that appeared around
the
>>> mid-30's -- that's when the promo sponsors shifted the target audience
from
>>> adults to kids with dimes. Those would be the "comic books" that I would
>>> want to have Pothole invent, but as I said, it won't work.
Of course! Sorry, part of my brain wasn't working. I just thought of this
"first comic book" I had seen on Bud Plant, and completely overlooked the
fact you were naturally thinking of such "comic books" as WDC&S. Well, it
did make for an interesting little discussion.
>>> If you try to extend the creation of comic strips back any further, and
>>> insist that any sequential series of illustrations telling a story is a
>>> "comic", there's no way to stop -- you'd zip right on past the
>>> picture-stories on the Great Pyramids and arrive at the tales of an Ice
Age
>>> mammoth hunt on the walls of a cave.
Comics history books naturally evoke such pictograms, but here's a reference
to an essay by one of the very founders of the comic book (I'm sure Don,
Steven & Timo and many other members already know it):
"Narrative Illustration: The Story of the Comics",
by M.C. Gaines (father of Bill, who created the horror comics) (1942);
reprinted in "Tales of Terror!-- The complete compendium of all the
incredible old EC Comics [...]",
by Fred Von Bernewitz & Grant Geissman,
published by Fantagraphics & Gemstone.
>>> Anyway, involving Pothole in the invention of comics would be so
complicated
>>> and problematic that I'm sure I won't attempt it. [...]
>>> I can easily leave it at where I ended the last Pothole appearance,
>>> with him inventing comic books in his mind. Maybe that's as much of that
>>> "gag" as needs to be.
Indeed; it's a nice suplot-gag. I hope you will eventually think of another
story featuring Pothole.
Olivier
Timo Ronkainen
-- Pothole & comics
Message 261 -
2003-10-17 at 19:40:03
>Any advice regarding books on the subject (comics history, I mean) is
>welcome!
There is huge volume by David Kunzle:
The Early Comic Strip : narrative strips and picture
stories in the European broadsheet from c.1450 to 1825 /
David Kunzle. -- Berkeley : University of California Press, 1973. -- 471 p
Some of the examples in the book are definitely comics. Narratives with
pictures accompanied with text. Some medieval pages are astoundingly modern
in their lay-out.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kyl? 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
?? Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
?? Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
?? Kvaak-sarjakuvaportaali:
http://www.kvaak.fi
...............................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on a cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger - kaikki yst?v?t klikkauksen p??ss?! Lataa t?st? ilmaiseksi.
http://www.msn.fi/viestintapalvelut/Messenger
>welcome!
There is huge volume by David Kunzle:
The Early Comic Strip : narrative strips and picture
stories in the European broadsheet from c.1450 to 1825 /
David Kunzle. -- Berkeley : University of California Press, 1973. -- 471 p
Some of the examples in the book are definitely comics. Narratives with
pictures accompanied with text. Some medieval pages are astoundingly modern
in their lay-out.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kyl? 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
?? Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
?? Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
?? Kvaak-sarjakuvaportaali:
http://www.kvaak.fi
...............................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on a cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger - kaikki yst?v?t klikkauksen p??ss?! Lataa t?st? ilmaiseksi.
http://www.msn.fi/viestintapalvelut/Messenger
Fabio Blanco
-- Pothole & comics
Message 262 -
2003-10-17 at 21:45:00
That comic "book" from Rodolphe T?pffer is an american edition of an
european book. T?pffer a Swiss, was making his comics around that time,
after the support words from Goethe himself.
I think comics with differerent types of caption come from prehistoric
times. You can see the Bayeux Tapestry and the Trajano (?) column, but if we
search for an modern comic book we want reach to the thirties...
FABIO
bonvolu postu al longtom at oeste.com.ar
european book. T?pffer a Swiss, was making his comics around that time,
after the support words from Goethe himself.
I think comics with differerent types of caption come from prehistoric
times. You can see the Bayeux Tapestry and the Trajano (?) column, but if we
search for an modern comic book we want reach to the thirties...
FABIO
bonvolu postu al longtom at oeste.com.ar
Eta Beta
First Comic
Message 263 -
2003-10-17 at 22:57:03
Timo (and Steven)
>>proper word balloons in cartoons
>
>This is little bit off topic, but well.... The whole idea is a bit stupid:
>that in order to be a proper comic it should have speech balloons. That
>drops off Hogart's Tarzan, Foster's Prince Val and others.
Mind you, I don't disagree with the general concept. In fact, the one
(and only, so far) japanese comic I dearly love is "GON", the completely
wordless story of a strange (and extremely strong) little dinosaur, and
there's really no need for words in there (there are no humans, of course,
so who would do the speaking, anyway ? :-)
I was talking about historical perspective, what I really think is that
it is virtually impossible to precisely nail down a "first comic" in
history without first setting up arbitrary rules that aim to define it,
rules that are obviously arguable with... we might consider the speech
balloons as the demarcation line, or the panels sequence layout or, as
Don seems to favour, the medium itself, i.e. a "book" purposedly
created to carry only comics rather than a "common" newspaper with a
strips section or a children's illustrated book and, again, arguing each
point we'd find ourselves in a cave somewhere studying graffitis... :-)
Olivier
You might perhaps find it easier to locate the Obadiah book in Italy,
since it's where it's been originally published, as sort of a "supplement"
to the Napoli Comic Convention last March. I'm sorry I cannot suggest
a direct source for that, though...
Another (relatively) recent book I found very interesting was "The
Yellow Kid", published by Kitchen Sink in 1995 with an "introduction"
(some 150 pages) by Bill Blackbeard.
Cheers!
Eta Beta
>>proper word balloons in cartoons
>
>This is little bit off topic, but well.... The whole idea is a bit stupid:
>that in order to be a proper comic it should have speech balloons. That
>drops off Hogart's Tarzan, Foster's Prince Val and others.
Mind you, I don't disagree with the general concept. In fact, the one
(and only, so far) japanese comic I dearly love is "GON", the completely
wordless story of a strange (and extremely strong) little dinosaur, and
there's really no need for words in there (there are no humans, of course,
so who would do the speaking, anyway ? :-)
I was talking about historical perspective, what I really think is that
it is virtually impossible to precisely nail down a "first comic" in
history without first setting up arbitrary rules that aim to define it,
rules that are obviously arguable with... we might consider the speech
balloons as the demarcation line, or the panels sequence layout or, as
Don seems to favour, the medium itself, i.e. a "book" purposedly
created to carry only comics rather than a "common" newspaper with a
strips section or a children's illustrated book and, again, arguing each
point we'd find ourselves in a cave somewhere studying graffitis... :-)
Olivier
You might perhaps find it easier to locate the Obadiah book in Italy,
since it's where it's been originally published, as sort of a "supplement"
to the Napoli Comic Convention last March. I'm sorry I cannot suggest
a direct source for that, though...
Another (relatively) recent book I found very interesting was "The
Yellow Kid", published by Kitchen Sink in 1995 with an "introduction"
(some 150 pages) by Bill Blackbeard.
Cheers!
Eta Beta
Rich Bellacera
Attn BRAZILIANS: Name of Emil Eagle's nephew?
Message 264 -
2003-10-18 at 00:27:08
Does anyone know the name of Emil Eagle's nephew?
I suppose he's appeared more times than I can uncover, but the INDUCKS only lists
two that I can find, and those are not even that easily found since EE's Nephew is
not typically tracked.
I have the October 1970 story where he only makes a cameo appearance in "The Youth
Machine" featuring the Wicked Witch and Minnie Mouse, but the nephew is not named
in the story:
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/W+WDCD+25-07
Zé Carioca 1077 (1972)
Almanaque Disney 139 (1982)
Disney Especial 111 (1988)
However, I see that he appears again in the Brazilian story:
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/B+800110
GILBERT, NEWTON "O clube dos inventores"
(EE and nephew disguised as children to get into GIL and Newton's inventors' club)
If anyone has access to either of these issues, could you please check and advise
me?
O Pato Donald 1544 (1981)
Seleção Disney 12 (1987)
While I'm inquiring and hopefuly have the attention of some Brazilians on the
List, I would still appreciate some scans of the Phantom Blot's nephews from:
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/B+74413
B 74413 - O clube dos peraltas
Tio Patinhas 116 (1975)
Almanaque As Crianças/(do Dia) das Crianças 1 (1984)
Seleção Disney 26 (1989)
-OR-
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/B+PD+1228-C
B PD 1228-C - A visita dos manchinhas
O Pato Donald 1228 (1975)
Disney Especial 58 (1981)
Also, if you notice, do these nephews actually have names, or are they just
referred as PB's Nephews?
Thank you so very much for your help in advance,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
I suppose he's appeared more times than I can uncover, but the INDUCKS only lists
two that I can find, and those are not even that easily found since EE's Nephew is
not typically tracked.
I have the October 1970 story where he only makes a cameo appearance in "The Youth
Machine" featuring the Wicked Witch and Minnie Mouse, but the nephew is not named
in the story:
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/W+WDCD+25-07
Zé Carioca 1077 (1972)
Almanaque Disney 139 (1982)
Disney Especial 111 (1988)
However, I see that he appears again in the Brazilian story:
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/B+800110
GILBERT, NEWTON "O clube dos inventores"
(EE and nephew disguised as children to get into GIL and Newton's inventors' club)
If anyone has access to either of these issues, could you please check and advise
me?
O Pato Donald 1544 (1981)
Seleção Disney 12 (1987)
While I'm inquiring and hopefuly have the attention of some Brazilians on the
List, I would still appreciate some scans of the Phantom Blot's nephews from:
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/B+74413
B 74413 - O clube dos peraltas
Tio Patinhas 116 (1975)
Almanaque As Crianças/(do Dia) das Crianças 1 (1984)
Seleção Disney 26 (1989)
-OR-
http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/B+PD+1228-C
B PD 1228-C - A visita dos manchinhas
O Pato Donald 1228 (1975)
Disney Especial 58 (1981)
Also, if you notice, do these nephews actually have names, or are they just
referred as PB's Nephews?
Thank you so very much for your help in advance,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
Rich Bellacera
Character Birthdays?
Message 265 -
2003-10-18 at 02:43:50
I know that traditionally Disney acknowledges Mickey's birthday as being the same
date as the release of his first film to the theaters, meaning the release
of "STEAMBOAT WILLIE" is Mickey's traditional birthday (even though "Plane Crazy"
was produced first.
Hence, Mickey's Birthday is: Nov. 18, 1928
Goofy's Birthday coincides with his film debut in "Mickey's Revue"
Hence Goofy's birthday is: May 25, 1932
I know there is some dispute about Donald's accepted Birthday.
Some hold that it coincided with his film debut in "The Wise Little Hen"
Hence: June 9, 1934
But others say it is said to have fallen on Friday the 13 of April, May, June or
October of 1944 or 1945 as derived from the film "The Three Caballeros"
Then again, there is an explicit reference by Freddy Milton who said his Birthdate
is: March 13, 1949
Italian comics are split on either: September 16, 1934 or June 9, 1934.
And Don Rosa has indicated it was sometime in 1920.
Me, I'm totally confused!
Still, I wonder about the OTHER characters?
If we hold that their film (or in some cases, their comicstrip) debut is their
birthdate then we can say these are the Birthdays for the following characters.
Unless someone knows of another accepted date:
HEUY, DEWEY & LOUIE: October 17, 1937 (from ZS 37-10-17) since their comicstrip
appearance preceded their film debut in 1938. Of course this lends itself to
making HDL only a few years younger than their Uncle Donald, so probably only the
month and day should be considered in most cases.
DAISY DUCK: Either she debutted in "DON DONALD" as "Donna Duck" or as "Daisy
Duck" in "MISTER DUCK STEPS OUT." So, depending on your view, her birthday is
either January 9, 1937 or June 7, 1940 (both preceed her first comic appearance).
MINNIE MOUSE: She debuted the same time as Mickey, so, it might also be Nov. 18,
1928. But, somehow, that doesn't seem fair as they are not twins.
PLUTO: September 5, 1930 ("The Chain Gang")
SCROOGE McDUCK: July 22, 1947 (from W OS 178-02) though I'm sure there are those
who would dispute this, too.
GRANDMA DUCK: August 11, 1940 (when her picture was seen) or September 27, 1943
when she finally appeared in person (YD 43-09-27).
APRIL, MAY & JUNE: June 30, 1952 (W WDC 149-01)
ATOMINO BIP-BIP: March 10, 1959 (I TL 206-A)
CHIP'n DALE: April 2, 1943 ("Private Pluto")
ELLSWORTH: October 30, 1949 (ZM 49-10-30)
FETHRY DUCK: August 2, 1964 (S 64008)
FIGARO: February 7, 1940 ("Pinocchio")
and so forth...
What is your opinion of the birthdates applied to the characters? Is it fine to
acknowledge the day & month and just ignore the actual year of debut since the
characters really don't age, so a fixed year is really irrelevant?
For instance, if you wanted to pick a day to celebrate your favorite Disney
Character, what day of the year would you ascribe to him or her?
Thanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
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date as the release of his first film to the theaters, meaning the release
of "STEAMBOAT WILLIE" is Mickey's traditional birthday (even though "Plane Crazy"
was produced first.
Hence, Mickey's Birthday is: Nov. 18, 1928
Goofy's Birthday coincides with his film debut in "Mickey's Revue"
Hence Goofy's birthday is: May 25, 1932
I know there is some dispute about Donald's accepted Birthday.
Some hold that it coincided with his film debut in "The Wise Little Hen"
Hence: June 9, 1934
But others say it is said to have fallen on Friday the 13 of April, May, June or
October of 1944 or 1945 as derived from the film "The Three Caballeros"
Then again, there is an explicit reference by Freddy Milton who said his Birthdate
is: March 13, 1949
Italian comics are split on either: September 16, 1934 or June 9, 1934.
And Don Rosa has indicated it was sometime in 1920.
Me, I'm totally confused!
Still, I wonder about the OTHER characters?
If we hold that their film (or in some cases, their comicstrip) debut is their
birthdate then we can say these are the Birthdays for the following characters.
Unless someone knows of another accepted date:
HEUY, DEWEY & LOUIE: October 17, 1937 (from ZS 37-10-17) since their comicstrip
appearance preceded their film debut in 1938. Of course this lends itself to
making HDL only a few years younger than their Uncle Donald, so probably only the
month and day should be considered in most cases.
DAISY DUCK: Either she debutted in "DON DONALD" as "Donna Duck" or as "Daisy
Duck" in "MISTER DUCK STEPS OUT." So, depending on your view, her birthday is
either January 9, 1937 or June 7, 1940 (both preceed her first comic appearance).
MINNIE MOUSE: She debuted the same time as Mickey, so, it might also be Nov. 18,
1928. But, somehow, that doesn't seem fair as they are not twins.
PLUTO: September 5, 1930 ("The Chain Gang")
SCROOGE McDUCK: July 22, 1947 (from W OS 178-02) though I'm sure there are those
who would dispute this, too.
GRANDMA DUCK: August 11, 1940 (when her picture was seen) or September 27, 1943
when she finally appeared in person (YD 43-09-27).
APRIL, MAY & JUNE: June 30, 1952 (W WDC 149-01)
ATOMINO BIP-BIP: March 10, 1959 (I TL 206-A)
CHIP'n DALE: April 2, 1943 ("Private Pluto")
ELLSWORTH: October 30, 1949 (ZM 49-10-30)
FETHRY DUCK: August 2, 1964 (S 64008)
FIGARO: February 7, 1940 ("Pinocchio")
and so forth...
What is your opinion of the birthdates applied to the characters? Is it fine to
acknowledge the day & month and just ignore the actual year of debut since the
characters really don't age, so a fixed year is really irrelevant?
For instance, if you wanted to pick a day to celebrate your favorite Disney
Character, what day of the year would you ascribe to him or her?
Thanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
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Don Rosa
Birthday determinations
Message 266 -
2003-10-18 at 08:41:41
From: Rich Bellacera (xephyr at cwnet.com)
Subject: Character Birthdays?
>>>I know that traditionally Disney acknowledges Mickey's birthday as being
the same
date as the release of his first film to the theaters, meaning the release
of "STEAMBOAT WILLIE" ... hence, Mickey's Birthday is: Nov. 18, 1928
Still, I wonder about the OTHER characters?
SCROOGE McDUCK: July 22, 1947 (from W OS 178-02) though I'm sure there are
those
who would dispute this, too.
You bet there is!
When is the "birthday" or anniversary of a famous book or movie or play
celebrated? When they decided to create the work? When the project was
begun? When the project was completed? No, it's when it is released to the
public... when it "officially" debuts to the world. Just as you say with
Mickey's birthday being on Nov. 18.
When do we celebrate our own birthdays? When we "were released to the
world"? Or nine months earlier on some romantic evening? That latter idea
might be when our life actually started. But celebrating our birthday on
that date (even if it could be nailed down)(excuse my nomenclature) would be
silly.
I've heard that some parties want to say that $crooge McDuck's anniversary
is July 22, since Mr. Barks submitted "Christmas on Bear Mountain" to the
publisher on July 22, 1947. But the story "was released to the world" in an
issue dated DECEMBER 1947. Set aside for a moment the question of when that
issue actually went on sale (sometime in October?) -- why did somebody
decide that $crooge's birthday is in July, which is as silly as saying our
birthdays are 9 months before we celebrate them?
It's because comic book sales are much better in the summer. They could sell
more "special anniversary issues" if they put them out during a summer
month. But don't be fooled or lead astray by marketeers.
$crooge McDuck's debut is in late 1947. I vote to stick to the publication
date on the magazine, December, only because it's too difficult to determine
what Western's official on-sale date was for FOUR COLOR #178. But one thing
I know for certain is that his birthday is *not* July 22.
But there must be a specific date? Well, some things are just not possible.
You'll hafta pull one outta thin air. It's a Christmas story wherein we
first see $crooge on December 23, so maybe you could decide his "birthday"
Dec. 23? But are exact dates necessary? It's close enough to say a
character's birthday (or a movie's anniversary, etc.) is during a certain
month. It's the marketeers who are insisting on exact dates for their press
releases. But you know, I guarantee you that DisneyWorld stores are willing
to sell you a "Mickey Mouse 75th Birthday" coll-eech-tible gee-gaw on lots
of other days of the year (or next year, for that matter) than only Nov. 18!
Subject: Character Birthdays?
>>>I know that traditionally Disney acknowledges Mickey's birthday as being
the same
date as the release of his first film to the theaters, meaning the release
of "STEAMBOAT WILLIE" ... hence, Mickey's Birthday is: Nov. 18, 1928
Still, I wonder about the OTHER characters?
SCROOGE McDUCK: July 22, 1947 (from W OS 178-02) though I'm sure there are
those
who would dispute this, too.
You bet there is!
When is the "birthday" or anniversary of a famous book or movie or play
celebrated? When they decided to create the work? When the project was
begun? When the project was completed? No, it's when it is released to the
public... when it "officially" debuts to the world. Just as you say with
Mickey's birthday being on Nov. 18.
When do we celebrate our own birthdays? When we "were released to the
world"? Or nine months earlier on some romantic evening? That latter idea
might be when our life actually started. But celebrating our birthday on
that date (even if it could be nailed down)(excuse my nomenclature) would be
silly.
I've heard that some parties want to say that $crooge McDuck's anniversary
is July 22, since Mr. Barks submitted "Christmas on Bear Mountain" to the
publisher on July 22, 1947. But the story "was released to the world" in an
issue dated DECEMBER 1947. Set aside for a moment the question of when that
issue actually went on sale (sometime in October?) -- why did somebody
decide that $crooge's birthday is in July, which is as silly as saying our
birthdays are 9 months before we celebrate them?
It's because comic book sales are much better in the summer. They could sell
more "special anniversary issues" if they put them out during a summer
month. But don't be fooled or lead astray by marketeers.
$crooge McDuck's debut is in late 1947. I vote to stick to the publication
date on the magazine, December, only because it's too difficult to determine
what Western's official on-sale date was for FOUR COLOR #178. But one thing
I know for certain is that his birthday is *not* July 22.
But there must be a specific date? Well, some things are just not possible.
You'll hafta pull one outta thin air. It's a Christmas story wherein we
first see $crooge on December 23, so maybe you could decide his "birthday"
Dec. 23? But are exact dates necessary? It's close enough to say a
character's birthday (or a movie's anniversary, etc.) is during a certain
month. It's the marketeers who are insisting on exact dates for their press
releases. But you know, I guarantee you that DisneyWorld stores are willing
to sell you a "Mickey Mouse 75th Birthday" coll-eech-tible gee-gaw on lots
of other days of the year (or next year, for that matter) than only Nov. 18!
Olivier
First Comic - bibliography
Message 267 -
2003-10-18 at 12:57:19
Timo & Eta Beta:
Thanks a lot for your suggestions!
The name of David Kunzle rings a bell, and I remember seeing that Yellow
Kid book-- it's on a "to consider buying" list.
Olivier
Thanks a lot for your suggestions!
The name of David Kunzle rings a bell, and I remember seeing that Yellow
Kid book-- it's on a "to consider buying" list.
Olivier
Gary Leach
Birthdays
Message 268 -
2003-10-18 at 17:42:36
We celebrate anniversaries because we are fascinated with the counting
game - we like to have a sense of how long something/someone has been
around. And in the case of Mickey, Donald, Scrooge, and all their
fictional colleagues, we like to think that, having been around so
long, they're significant, they're important, they really do matter.
And do they? To us, yeah, of course. Silly question. But then, when do
we say that Uncle Scrooge, for instance, was born? That's easy: on the
publication of "Christmas on Bear Mountain." Why is that easy? Because
prior to that Scrooge was a conception, nothing more - he had not yet
fully emerged from the creative process. And make no mistake, the
creative process that resulted in Scrooge gives "birth" on one
occasion, and one occasion only - the date of publication. At any point
prior to that Scrooge could have vanished and not one of us would have
ever been the wiser. Even Barks would have probably forgotten he ever
had such a notion.
Gary
game - we like to have a sense of how long something/someone has been
around. And in the case of Mickey, Donald, Scrooge, and all their
fictional colleagues, we like to think that, having been around so
long, they're significant, they're important, they really do matter.
And do they? To us, yeah, of course. Silly question. But then, when do
we say that Uncle Scrooge, for instance, was born? That's easy: on the
publication of "Christmas on Bear Mountain." Why is that easy? Because
prior to that Scrooge was a conception, nothing more - he had not yet
fully emerged from the creative process. And make no mistake, the
creative process that resulted in Scrooge gives "birth" on one
occasion, and one occasion only - the date of publication. At any point
prior to that Scrooge could have vanished and not one of us would have
ever been the wiser. Even Barks would have probably forgotten he ever
had such a notion.
Gary
Michael Schartau
100 years of Disney magic ??
Message 269 -
2003-10-18 at 18:28:03
"This brand new production celebrates 100 years of Walt Disney Magic. Watch as all your favourite characters take you on a whirlwind tour of the Classic Disney adventures including: A Bug's Life, The Lion King, Mulan, Toy Story, Pinocchio, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast and a Grand Finale with over 75 years of magic."
What years are Disney on Ice celebrating? When was the "birth" of Disney Magic?
/Michael
What years are Disney on Ice celebrating? When was the "birth" of Disney Magic?
/Michael
Olaf Solstrand
"I'll be back"
Message 270 -
2003-10-18 at 19:59:25
No, this is not a question about the governor of California, it's a question
about the backs of Disney comics.
Norwegian Donald Pocket (and their Swedish and Danish siblings, I assume) has
for a while had an illustration covering the BACKS of the books, meaning that
if you collect them all and put them in the shelf, they will together make a
picture. (just like with many mangas, or Iron Maiden's 1998 remasters of old
albums)
Normally (in Norway) this has been short illustrations over 8-10 books, but
after Donald Pocket 231 there has been ONE picture starting at DP231 and
continuing until somewhere in the future (and we're at 275 now).
Well, I don't need to explain any further I guess, as only Scandinavians will
be able to answer me anyway, but my question is: Does anyone know who's drawn
this marvellous back-illustration?
I have never seen any story code connected to it, but part of the illustration
(the backs of the first ten books) are identical with the cover DC JB 231, so I
assume the artist is the same for DC JB 231 and these backs.
Does anyone have knowledge on this? If it's in COA, I haven't managed to find
it.
about the backs of Disney comics.
Norwegian Donald Pocket (and their Swedish and Danish siblings, I assume) has
for a while had an illustration covering the BACKS of the books, meaning that
if you collect them all and put them in the shelf, they will together make a
picture. (just like with many mangas, or Iron Maiden's 1998 remasters of old
albums)
Normally (in Norway) this has been short illustrations over 8-10 books, but
after Donald Pocket 231 there has been ONE picture starting at DP231 and
continuing until somewhere in the future (and we're at 275 now).
Well, I don't need to explain any further I guess, as only Scandinavians will
be able to answer me anyway, but my question is: Does anyone know who's drawn
this marvellous back-illustration?
I have never seen any story code connected to it, but part of the illustration
(the backs of the first ten books) are identical with the cover DC JB 231, so I
assume the artist is the same for DC JB 231 and these backs.
Does anyone have knowledge on this? If it's in COA, I haven't managed to find
it.