200104 - DCML - Keskustelujen arkisto

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Donald Markstein

DCML digest, Vol 1 #483 - 15 msgs Message 196 - 2001-04-18 at 04:15:12

Donald Markstein

P.S. to Steven Rowe Message 197 - 2001-04-18 at 04:48:20

Nobody needs to be defended against the likes of that plagiaristic twerp.
Most people here know me (at least slightly), and we've come to know Mr.
Toti all too well.

All the same, thanks! I'm really glad to hear you like my Toonopedia.

(Sorry about the delay between this message and the last. I was called to
dinner just as I sent that one off, and my wife's delicious quiche
definitely takes precedence over a silly little Internet tiff.)

Quack, Don

Today in Toons: Every day's an anniversary. What's today?
http://www.toonopedia.com/today.htm

Shelley Hanson/KlezmerAllThatJazz

European Ducks; Grandma and Scrooge Message 198 - 2001-04-18 at 04:56:21

As Steven Rowe says, we U.S. readers would be happy to discuss other artists
and writers, if only we could get copies of their work. Does anyone have
recommendations as to which European publications would be good to start
with, and an address of a bookstore where such things could be ordered? (I
can read French and, with a dictionary in one hand, Italian and Spanish; a
little German but that would be with a dictionary in two hands.) And I
admire all of the non-native speakers of English here who write so well in
English.

I am surprised by the suggestion that Grandma Duck and Scrooge are in any
way related, because in several of Barks' stories (as in a one-pager where
he takes her out to dinner and there seems to be a little gallant "body
language"), there does seem to be the possibility of a little vestigial
romantic spark. !!!

By the way, my recollection is that Calisota is mentioned more than once by
Barks as the state in which Duckburg is located. (A state in which there can
be both palm trees, and mammoth snowfalls allowing huge snow forts to be
built!) Am I incorrect in this memory? Of course, I am living in Minnesota,
half of the "Calisota" state, so I may be a bit prejudiced on this subject.

Daniel Van Eijmeren

Square egg story ... from 1924 Message 199 - 2001-04-18 at 07:18:16

NILS LID HJORT, 18-04-2001:

> [Saki's "The Square Egg", 1924] Did you know? I guess Barks didn't.

While making the "Lost in the Andes"-story, Barks was unaware of Saki's
"The Square Egg". He did not read the story until a fan sent him a copy
in the early 1970s. Only the universality of the egg joke accounts that
both writers used it.

"Square eggs have been a joke for more years than I've been on earth",
Barks has commented in an August 4, 1975 interview by Donald Ault and
Thomas Andrae. "I remember hearing people talking about breeding chickens
that would lay square eggs from the time I was a little child."

Source: The Carl Barks Library, page 1C-657.

The interview was videotaped and released as "The Duck Man - An interview
with Carl Barks" in the 1990s. I didn't buy this video when it was still
available. I deeply, deeply regret that. According to the many quotes I've
seen, this must have been one of the best Barks interviews ever filmed.

Best wishes,

--- Daniel

"I guess most folks are still pretty relaxed at 6:30 A.M.!"
(Which story?)

Don Rosa

Harry's off-topic queries: Message 200 - 2001-04-18 at 09:05:34

From: "Fluks, H.W." <H.W.Fluks at kpn.com>
>>>> I just got my copy of the "Don Rosa Archives" in the mail today
First, a big THANKS to Nils Lid Hjort for making these editions!

AMEN TO THAT! I had no way to conveniently read these old stories myself,
as they were spread through about a dozen fanzines and 150 newspaper
clippings! Now I have these 2 lovely hardbacks!

>>>My xeroxes of episodes 67 - 127 are from the RBCC reprint. Episode 66
was
used at the start of part 2 and 3 of the reprint. In part 2, the character
"Freddie" was crossed out. In part 3, Freddie was replaced by a picture of
Gerald Atrix. (Question 1: was that a new drawing for RBCC?)

I originally drew that opening episode for the college paper thinking I
would use Freddie in that story, then changed my plans. So when it was
reprinted in the RBCC I replaced Freddie with a pic of Gerry Atrix, at
least for that third installment.

>>>>Episodes 128-133 came from "Don Rosa's Comics and stories #1" (BTW, it
would
have been nice to see the covers of these issues in the Norwegian book...).
Two pages, which were only 2/3 filled in the original, were taken together
as one page in the DRCS reprint. With one panel of new art, or so it seems.
("Ah, there's prof. Cistims now...". Question 2: is that really new art?
And
why were the original pages only 2/3?)

Okay, those episodes were not taken from DRC&S, they were taken from RBCC.
Fantagraphics' DRC&S reprinted the RBCC stuff. But when they were laying
out the issue, my story contained 2 pages too many to fit into the correct
number of "signatures" (the folded sets of pages that make up books &
magazines) they had planned. So I needed to go through the story and find
places to delete two pages. When I found the two sequences, I then had to
create a few *new* panels to bridge the gaps. The two sequences were (just
going by memory) the scene in the dean's office you mention, then another
scene when the characters reach Point Barrow and need to buy a dogsled. I
have actually not gotten out my old DRC&S issue to compare what's in the
new books, but I, myself, am not sure why there are those partial pages in
the new hardbacks. All of that hardback was shot directly from the original
art, so there should have been a complete story with full pages. But having
that explanation, maybe you can look at it and figure out what's goin' on.
However, whatever the case, I suspect this means that those bridging panels
that appeared in DRC&S do *not* appear in the new hardback. But then, why
are there partial pages? Hm. Now I'm curious, too. I'll go look........

>>>>Another page had a footnote saying "a reference to an earlier
"Pertwillaby
Papers" adventure to be reprinted in volume 3." I don't think volume 3 (of
DRCS) ever appeared. The Norwegian book doesn't have the text "to be
reprinted in volume 3", for obvious reasons. I think the *original* strips
don't have such a footnote at all.

What you see in the hardback is the original art from the original pages.

>>>>And then there's another page, which was composed from 2 original
pages.
Again with one panel of new (?) art. ("Vell, gett it OUT, here is our first
stop.". Question 3: why did that happen?)

Okay, I should have checked this before I started typing! Can't stop now.
I'll go look later. But what you're referring to must be that Point Barrow
scene.

>>>>Summarising, the following Pertwillaby artwork doesn't (seem to) appear
in
the Norwegian book:
- partly redrawn episode #66 for RBCC;
- two new panels for DR's Comics and Stories #1;
- cover of DR's C&S #1, illustrating "Sub-zero";
- cover of DR's C&S #2, illustrating "Vortex";
- a (unpublished?) cover illustrating "The Black Knight";
- cover of RBCC #148, "in King Arthur's court!";
- poster-format strip (5 x 4 panels) advertising RBCC 148.

I guess they might have published those last three items if I had told Nils
about them. I guess I didn't since I knew he had no plans to print the
covers of DRC&S, so why would he want the other covers?

>>>>If the above is correct, then my Pertwillaby collection is complete!

Ah, but do you have the special poster that they printed as an extra for
people who bought the books through Tronsmo? That was a wrap-around
magazine cover that was to be on the first issue of a magazine called,
simply, DON ROSA (or never had a finalized title) back in 1980. It never
saw print because I pulled the plug on it myself in the face of the "new"
direction that "fandom" was taking, that being no longer "just for fun",
but "for profit". And I did not want to make a profit off my hobby -- that
would taint it in my eyes and philosophies. This DON ROSA was to have been
an ongoing magazine reprinting some of my "Pertwillaby Papers" and "Captain
Kentucky" strips in each issue, then perhaps containing new material later
on. As it turned out, the editor who was organizing the material had asked
me for copies of the art, text pieces, a new wrap-around cover, etc., then
he sent all of that to a publisher he had contacted. It was at the printers
and ready to go. Then I had a conversation with this editor -- I can't
recall the course of the conversation, but at some point he revealed to me,
with utter innocence since I had been doing free work for his fanzine for
about 7 years, that once I had done ALL the work and sent the material to
him, he simply took all of that material and shipped it to the publisher
who then paid him $900 as the middle man. $900 of which I got NIL. I don't
mind doing all the work in the spirit I had always done my
hobby-cartooning, but I refused to allow someone else to reap ALL of the
profits from what was 100% my labor. So I told him to scrap the magazine,
it was not an endeavor I wanted to participate in, and that was the point
in my life that I retired from cartooning, packed the drawing table and
other equipment down into the basement, and had no intention of ever being
a cartoonist again. But here I am now -- and why am I allowing a licensing
corporation to do to me on a worldwide scale what I wouldn't allow that
editor to do to me on a *much* smaller scale in 1980? Good question. I
guess because I don't do the work for free now -- though I still enjoy
parts of it, I could not do it for free simply because there's not that
much time in my life. So, as long as I have a normal relationship with the
publisher I work for and with, I just ignore what the third-party licensing
corporation is doing to both of us.
But, anyway, if you don't have that "Pertwillaby Papers" poster from
Tronsmo, your collection can't be complete. (And neither is mine! I still
need one of the posters myself! They were too big to carry back from Oslo
in my suitcase!)

Don Rosa

Questions to Don Message 201 - 2001-04-18 at 09:12:15

From: H?vard Hesjevoll<chesjproductions at hotmail.com>
>>>In Don Rosa?s story "The coin", there is a paperroll in the first
panel(of
the kind that drawers often use to write the introduction. But (at leastin
the norwegian edition) it?s just "KR" in the paperroll... So I wonder: Was
it an introductions there, which has been deleted in the norwegian version?
And in that case; what was written there?

That is where the title of the story is supposed to go! Do you think that
should have been obvious to a publisher? But then they decided to simply
write "KR" (Norwegian version of "$") on the mysterious hovering scroll --
what did they think that was supposed to mean? Sometimes I'd pay cash-money
to know what's going on in people's heads, wouldn't you?

>>>And another thing: I can?t find the hidden D.U.C.K.. Does anyone know
where
it is?

I do. Nyah, nyah!

Jan Follak

Barks special tribute books Message 202 - 2001-04-18 at 10:23:02

For Timo Ronkainen:

In Germany there's also a Barks tribute book with some Barks stories and
sketches/ stories by several other artists paying tribute to Barks. Egmont
Ehapa has a description of it:

http://ehapa.funonline.de/neuigkeiten/novitaeten/barks/barks_sonderband.html

Best wishes,
Jan

Rob Klein

Current Italian Production Message 203 - 2001-04-18 at 10:24:25

To those DCML active members AND lurkers who avoid discussing current
artists' work in the Italian, French, Brasilian, Dutch and (yes!) EVEN
Egmont Disney Comics production, I say "Please, Please, Please - bring it
on!!! Do not be afraid that no one will respond. There are many of us
who would be interested in such subjects. I certainly want to learn about
the best of such creators. How will I learn which ones are best without
getting information on those whose work I cannot identify using my current
low level of knowledge?

I am basically a Barks fan first - then a Duck fan - then a Disney comics
fan - then a funny - animal fan. Even so, I very much appreciate the work
of other artists whose work I have come to know and love (such as Floyd
Gottfredson, Al Taliaferro, Walt Kelly, Dan Jippes, Freddy Milton, Jan
Gulbransson, Manual Gonzales, Bill Wright, Romano Scarpa, Marco Rota, Ben
Verhagen, Mau Heijmans, Tony Strobel(pre 1959), Jack Bradbury, Dick Moores,
Paul Murray (pre 1959), Michel Nadorp, the van Horns, and many, many
others).

I was introduced to a wonderful world I had not known, when late in life I
was introduced to the art of Romano Scarpa (Dutch pocket books) and Marco
Rota (Dutch "Stripgoed" - precursor series to "DD Extra").
If it had not been for those chance "discoveries" by me, I would have
continued to IGNORE the Italian production (which is, for the most part,
drawn in a style that is not to my taste). I have come to appreciate the
best work of Cavazzano, some of Carpi's work, and that of a few others. In
addition, there have been many well written and very inventive stories
which were drawn in a style I don't like. Despite that minor problem, I
would yet want to learn about those stories (and writers). I have seen
references to several Italian writers who write very good stories (and can
add Frank Jonker and Gorm Transgaard as lesser known quality writers).
Even if only 10% of the new production is to my liking; that is, indeed, an
enormous amount of production. This is also true for me regarding Some
French production (sometimes introduced by Olivier, or Didier or Francois);
Brasilian production (introduced by Arthur Faria); and even Egmont work
(often introduced by David Gerstein). For example, the Dutch editors do
not print many of the Noel van Horn Egmont Mouse stories - so, once
informed by a Danish friend, or David, I can obtain a Danish issue with
that story. I would choose to do that also with stories from new artists I
learn about from list members in other countries. DCML is made up of
mainly non-English first language speakers, so the lack of production in
USA and Britain is not a problem. Many of us can at least find a
significant portion of the "foreign" production published in a language we
can read.

So, PLEASE, let us not fall into a trend of talking mostly about Barks
trivia, Rosa, and only listing the contents of new magazine issues of
various countries (without discussing most of their current creators).
Could any of you non-Italian Scarpa fans imagine not having his wonderful
stories to enjoy?

Thanks, Rob Klein

Olivier

Scandinavian Poll , The Future Message 204 - 2001-04-18 at 10:55:17

Nils:
The ducks popularity in Scandinavia is really amazing!
To think they even make first page on a newspaper, plus
TV shows! Surely, when there's a new "Ast?rix", the media
talk about it. But, I mean, the ducks are not Scandinavian
creations; there *was* a little something on Barks when he died,
but it was very little and-- weirdest of all-- they kept repeating
he invented Donald (which is not true) but never said a word about
Uncle Scrooge! This is quite strange since often whenever French
people refer to a Disney character, it's either Mickey (standing for Disney)
or Scrooge (standing for nasty capitalism, or as a joke).
By the way, what kind of Scandinavian comics do you have?

Thierry:
>>And Taliaferro/Gottfredson? This seldom happens.
I'd *love* to!
But:
1/ I'm desperate to find an anthology of Taliaferro's strips in English
2/ There are two few Mouse strips that have been allowed to be reprinted.
I am the very fortunate owner of an anthology of the dailies, and would
gladly talk about them, but it could be only with a very few people (David
for sure; who else?), and I'd hate to tease everyone else with discussions
they can't follow about strips they might never be able to read.
(Yes, I intend to scan a few strips, but it takes a lot of time to scan them--
the image rarely runs parallel to the paper so it take several scans to get it
right-- and to clean them up-- as sharp and as true b&w as possible , not
fuzzy dark gray & yellowish white)

Have a nice day!
(Not that nice here in Paris weatherwise: gray, rainy, cold)

Olivier

Lunnan & Hjort

'Square Egg Story' in Norwegian news today Message 205 - 2001-04-18 at 11:40:32

"Lost in the Andes" makes it to Aftenposten and NRK2:

As we know, Egmont recently produced a Grand de Lux book with
"Best of Barks", published simultaneously in Norway, Denmark and
Sweden, in connection with Barks' 100 years anniversary. Egmont
used this opportunity to invite readers to "vote" on "the best Barks story
ever". One could vote by email or using cellulose substances. When I
checked near the end of the voting week (after Barks' birthday;
a formal deadline seemed not to have been given), about 1000 votes
had been placed in each of the three countries.

It was not a surprise that the "Lost in the Andes" (from oneshot #223, 1949)
was voted the most popular Barks story, by Norwegian readers. It has
always enjoyed particular fame in this country because it stirred up a
veritable linguistic-political storm when it was published in 1963; the
people of "Plain Awful" (Gufseplassen) spoke "New Norwegian", more
precisely, in the (beautiful) dialect of Voss. _Some_ of the New Norwegian
clan felt publicly insulted. -- It is perhaps a little surprising that the
voting
patterns in the three Scandinavian countries seemed to match extremely well
(I have not seen the final results; this was simply my impression after
visiting the three websites at the end of the voting week). In particular,
the "Lost in the Andes" won not only in Norway, but also in the sister
countries. (I had some comments about this earlier on the DCML,
hinting that the voting system might have been biased towards this
particular story.)

The Aftenposten newspaper commented on this result on their first page
today, and used most of the back page for a well-written, informative
report on this. They commented of course on the 1963 language debate
temperature, and there was a photo of Barks from his 1994 visit.

The "cultural TV channel" NRK 2 also featured this news story tonight.
I was somehow invited to their daily (?) "cultural news" (?) hour show
(20:00 -- 21:00), and was interviewed ("live") about the square eggs story,
the influence of Barks, etc. We also saw a brief video made earlier today
from the little township of Voss, which thanks to 1963 Duck translator
Vivi Aagaard is eternally placed on the cultural-political map of Norway.
They had children read some of the Voss-lines from the story (reading
from the "Best of Barks" book, which has kept the 1963 translation).

There is a definite limit to what can be shown and told and explained and
discussed about any topic in a six-seven minute slot in a TV programme,
but I guess the result was fair & ok for the purpose.

The Donald Duck comics have always been enormously popular in
Scandinavia. What is less obvious and worth contemplating is the degree
to which "everyone" now knows also of the Main Creator, Carl Barks,
and even of Don Rosa and a couple of the other Disney comics creators.
10-20 years ago rather few would know the name of Barks; now his
is really a household name. -- The other guests of this TV show had
some minutes to chat outside, before the programme started. And these
other people (an editor of a women's magazine, a couple of musicians)
instantly recalled both the Barks name and the details of the square eggs
story, just from glancing at the cover of the "Lost in the Andes" comic
I had brought with me. Such a tremendous, universal popularity and
recognisablity could not have been in Barks' wildest imagination when
he finished the story in late 1948...

Nils Lid Hjort (who needs to wash off his TV make-up)

Lunnan & Hjort

'we who did not like Donald Duck...'? Message 206 - 2001-04-18 at 11:46:11

I heard today that there had been an article by someone in one
of the Norwegian newspapers, perceived of by the reader
I talked to as "anti-Donald" or "anti-Barks". The theme had
been along the lines of "we who did not learn to like Donald" (?).
Unfortunately the person I talked to could not reconstruct
where this was published and by whom. Can anyone help?

Nils Lid Hjort

Lunnan & Hjort

Square egg story ... from 1924 Message 207 - 2001-04-18 at 12:02:18

Did you know? I guess Barks didn't.

I quite like Saki: "Macabre, acid and very funny, Saki's work
drives a knife into the upper crust of English Edwardian life",
according to the book I have with his short stories.
Saki is the pseudonym (taken from the last stanza of "The
Ruba'iyat of Omar Khayyam", another classic) of English
author Hector Hugo Munro, born 1870 in Burma.

Anyway, I recommend the short story called "The Square Egg"
from 1924, and not only because its affinity to the 1949 Barks
classic (almost) everyone on this list knows [and therefore also
to the 1989 Rosa follow-up story, which also deserves to
become a classic].

Nils Lid Hjort

Anders Christian Siveb¾k

DCMLVol 1 #483 Håvard Message 208 - 2001-04-18 at 12:10:45

H?vard (seems these programs have an ISO-code problem with your name like
it has with mine)

> In Don Rosa?s story "The coin", there is a paperroll in the first
>panel(of
>the kind that drawers often use to write the introduction. But (at
>leastin
>the norwegian edition) it?s just "KR" in the paperroll... So I wonder:
>Was
>it an introductions there, which has been deleted in the norwegian
>version?
>And in that case; what was written there?
The title was written there. The title is there in the danish version.
There is no introduction for the story, I don't recall at the moment there
having been a such in many Rosa stories.. Maybe in Treasure under Glass,
but I'm not sure.

>And another thing: I can?t find the hidden D.U.C.K.. Does anyone know
>where
>it is?
If it's there you can find it via www.duckburg.dk - I mean Thomas shows
where it is in the french version. The norwegians might have erased it
(though it wouldn't be like them... they usually treat Don's stories very
nice) or the title may have been written all over the duck, making it
non-seeable...

Yours
AC
PS My next mail will contain the second part of my travel report. I think

Kriton Kyrimis

DCML digest, Vol 1 #483 - 15 msgs Message 209 - 2001-04-18 at 12:28:47

SOREN:

> I just wondered
> why most of those volunteers (two hundreds members or so) seem to be
> mere archaeologists.

Because we are fascinated by the arcaheological element of many of Barks'
and Don's stories?

Seriously, I think that the main reason we mostly talk about the stories
of these two artists is that we have *all* read them. I'm fairly certain
that if you conduct a poll asking list members with which artists they
are familiar, you would get 100% for Barks, Rosa, and (maybe) Scarpa,
and smaller scores for everybody else.

> Younger American artists like Noel van Horn are
> never mentioned on this list either--his Goofy being extremely well
> drawn BTW.

I sincerely hope that he has improved with time, because I found his
version of Goofy, published during Gladstone's last days, pretty horrible!
(There! I'm talking about an artist other than the big two!)

> I certainly would like to do so, but who cares if I find Valerio Held a
> genious or likewise. It doesn't have any effect, since no one knows
> this guy anyway (except for a few Italians). Similarly, I think that
> Antonio Bancells might be one of the worst artists ever, taking into
> consideration the emmence influence he has had (and still has) on Egmont
> material for decades.

Who are Valerio and Antonio Bancells? Why do you think the former is
a genius and the latter one of the worst artists ever? (And why do you
assume that nobody cares about the subject?) Can you provide sample scans
for those of us who are either unfamiliar with their work, or do not
associate their names with their respective style?

Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Fame is the accumulation of misunderstandings around a well-known name."
-----

Olaf Solstrand

Rumpus McFowl, Barks tribute books, italian stories, Angelo's website, Fernando Message 210 - 2001-04-18 at 12:43:24

Olivier:
I've read a Rumpus McFowl story where Rumpus comes back to the money bin
(the THIRD time ever I read about him) followed by a sleezy lawyor and says
that he has the legal right to get half of $crooge's money... Here, he
reveals a long-time-secret letter written by Rumpus' mother which tells the
full relationship $crooge has to Rumpus (whether this was DURING Fergus'
marriage to Downy O'Drake or BEFORE/AFTER it (which maybe is impossible
because of Rumpus' age)). I don't believe in the existanse of Rumpus McFowl,
but for anybody who do, I recommend that story. (I don't remember the
title...)

Timo:
There has been a Barks tribute book in Norway containing 10 of his bst
stories. I guess it's the same book as in Sweden and Denmark (only in a
different language...)

Søren / Francesco:
I must agree that most Italian storys are very bad. Most of the stories in
the Norwegian "Donald Pocket" are Italian, and I find the quality of these
very bad. The drawings are, in my opinion, very bad, and the scripts
themselves don't impress me much. Mainly because in my Disney Universe
(which I've already told you about a thousand times) this stories are
FUTURE! There are no such things as cellular phones, hi-teck jeeps or
millennium celebrations in the mid-50s!

Fernando, here's a funny story about you:
When you said that you're a story writer yourself, I thought "Oh my god,
where have I heard his name before? I must have read thousands of Fernando
stories!" I went to the store to buy the newest Donald Duck & Co, and
searched the entire magazine for stories signed "Fernando". I found none.
Then I made an internet search to find out which stories you had written -
so that I could think back on them and think "Oh my god, THAT was Fernando?
Wow, I remember that story, it was good..." When I found out that you have
only written Jose Carreras-stories that never has been released in Norway, I
was a little bit embarrased... I have no idea who I mixed you up with...

I will agree to all of you that has yelled at Angelo Toti; what Angelo did
was a rude and terrible thing to to. By the way, I am working on a webpage
right now that will be in Norwegian. I have not decided yet whether it will
be a Don Rosa-site or a Disney Comics-site, but I WILL gather -some-
information on other sites on the net - without being a copyist. I will also
refer to all my sources, have a personal angle on most of it, rewrite
everything, lay my own design on it and send mails to every source I use to
ASK for permission. Have you thought about doing that, Angelo? What you did
was terrible!

BTW: It feels SO cool to finally be part of a serious mailing list! To get
all these mails about something I really care about... it's
something I've never experienced before! Thanks to all of you!!!

-olaf-
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Keskustelujen arkisto

Topic: 200104