Keskustelujen arkisto

Hello!

Dan:
>>the desert island would be a comfortable place
>>if I had a CD player, 4 of Oldfield's titles, a good number
>>of Barks and Rosa comics, and my Bible.

Ha, the famous "desert island" / "what objects would you like
to save from a disaaster" issue...
A friend & I tried to make a list of CDs & films we'd like to have on a
high tech desert island. At first, I thought we might choose 50 titles
maximum per list, then try and boil it down. Well, I was way over the
50 titles in my preliminary list! Still haven't solved the dilemma.
Maybe I should have *everything* ready to carry away, just in case...

More to the point: haven't tried doing it for the comics yet.
A few titles spring to mind. (lists below, no particular order).
What would you (everyone) take along?

Olivier

Barks:
1/ Land Beneath the Ground
2/ Only a Poor Old Mind
3/ Back to the Klondike (with the fish currency story that follows--
that's one album)
4/ Golden Helmet
5/ Lost in the Andes
6/ In Old California
7/ Christmas in Shacktown
8/ Letter to Santa
9/ Sheriff of Bullet Valley

Barks 10-pagers (much more difficult):
Quiz show, Nightmares, Donald's Big Imagination

Don Rosa:
1/ L&T (original 12, new ones, future ones, all!)
2/ Son of the Sun
3/ Last Sled to Dawson
4/ Croesus
5/ Space Varmints
6/ Hearts of the Yukon
7/ Duck that Never Was
8/ Unviersal Solvent
9/ Black Knight
10/ Once and Future Duck
11/ Return to Plain Awful

And certainly many more I can't think of right now.
Actually, this is also the much-debated "favorite story" issue.
I haven't taken part in such a debate yet, so this will complete
my introducktion a bit in a sense, even though it's not a list I've
given much thought about.
Gottfredson's mouse would have to be save as well.

>
Well, all I can tell you is that when a litho showed an easily
understandable "generic" scene, such as a scene in a pile of money, buyers
were content. But when it referred to a very specific scene, such as the
dam breaking at the "Money Lake" and "Return to Plain Awful" with a square
chicken, the lithos were accompanied by a copy of a comic to explain the
scene to the buyers. I was hired to create one of those comics for the
buyers -- my "Return to Plain Awful" story was not MY idea. Bruce Hamilton
had me create that story *primarily* to be given to buyers of the litho to
explain the puzzling elements of the scene. They wanted *anybody* to buy
those scenes, Barks fans, "Disneyana" collectors who had never heard of
"Scrooge McDuck", "limited edition" art collectors/dealers/speculators,
*anybody*... they weren't trying to limit the appeal to *only* people who
had read the comics.<

All I can tell you is that Barks did 122 (+) paintings in his early period (from 1971 to 1976)
seventeen of which were money bin paintings, and I would be willing to bet that ALL of those
paintings were done for fans of the comics. I'm sure the lithos were marketed to a wider
audience, true, but ALL of the moneybin painting motifs were developed back in the early 70s when
it was just a herd of fanboys stampeding Barks doors for cheap paintings.

>Obviously, but you leave out all the elements that are *not* just as in the
comics, such as the vault doors... the vault doors in the comics were very
plain looking, so they were fancied-up for the paintings. And the Bin is
shown to be as much filled with jewels and ancient treasure as it is coins,
which is nothing like what was ever shown in the comics. Nothing wrong with
that. But the purpose was not first and foremost to be accurate to the
comics. It was to make an eye-catching scene for buyers.<

I'm not following your argument or logic here. Because Barks added vault doors that were never
shown in the comics, Barks coloration of the coins should be disregarded? I personally assumed
that the money bin paintings with the arched vaults were actually an inner sanctum buried deep
within the actual bin. Barks did do a couple of paintings which showed the main bin.

>Well, I'm not as certain of that from personal experience as I am about the
European editions. But I've often said that the Dells were not following
Barks' ideas. For example, the Terries and Firmies were colored bright
rainbow colors, and it's clear that Barks intended them to be colored like
plain rocks, all alike. And the Philosopher's Stone is colored like gold,
though the story makes it clear that it's supposed to look like an ordinary
rock. But...<

So you grant me this point, but don't address the implication. Why do you assume that the pile
of coins on the cover of FC 386 is wrong, but the coins on the interior splash of FC 386 is
correct? Are you basically taking colorists out of the equation? (Remember, you were the one who
brought up non-reading colorists as a reason for why European coins were colored "wrong".)

>Because our money is almost exclusively silver. And the stories refer to
the money in the Bin as being... normal money, not as being 3 cubic acres
of gold coins which would come from... where? Made by who? Why would Barks
intend them to be some other sort of "money" than what we use as money? I
don't get it...<

Good Lord! Where is your famous research? Certainly after the depression, gold coins were very
scarce, but during the time when Scrooge was amassing his fortune, gold coins were plentiful and
in all denominations. Here is a partial (I'm sure) list after only five minutes of research:

Gold Quarter Eagles Mint dates:(1796-1907)
$1 Gold Liberty Head (1849-1854)
$1 Gold Indian Princess (1854-1856)
$1 Gold Indian Head (1856-1889)
Gold Indian Quarter Eagles (1908-1929)
$2.25 Liberty Gold (1840-1907)
$2.25 Indian Head Gold (1908-1929)
3$ Gold Princess (1854-1889)
5$ Gold Half Eagles (1795-1907)
10$ Gold Eagles (1795-1907)
10$ Gold Indian Eagle (1907-1932)
$20 Gold Double Eagle (1850-1907)
$20 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle (1907-1933)
California Pioneer Fractional Gold coins (many denominations)
Numerous and plentiful commemorative coins.

With the exception of the last two categories, gold coins were minted at all five US mints and
were circulated widely until the depression.

>Underlying my comments is simply the belief that we don't have gold coins
as our money. And also $crooge's sentimental attachment to them, as
demonstrated in a number of Barks stories... "I earned this dime in
so-and-so. I made this dollar working as a so-and-so".<

See above. Yes, it's true that NOW we don't have gold coins, and the while you were growing up,
there were few gold coins, but while Barks was growing up, there were MANY gold coins (though he
would not have posessed many of them), and while Scrooge was amassing his fortune, there were
certainly MANY MANY gold coins.

>??? We've had some gold coins in the 19th century, even a $20 gold piece in
the early 1900's, and they were in extremely limited circulation. That
would be like having a thousand dollar bill nowadays!<

This is just plain wrong Don. Do the research. There were tens of thousands of gold coins in
all demoninations, with many more special mintings and varieties than listed even above. They
were quite common until the depression.

>But I've still said that $crooge surely has some gold coins in his Bin, I've mentioned it in
stories. But not ALL solid golden coins.<

Barks paintings do not show ALL solid gold coins, he has many silver coins as well.

>But I'm simply explaining why *I* am certain that the money in the Bin is
normal money. Sure, if, for some reason, you want to imagine that the Money
Bin is filled with small golden discs that $crooge had created himself to
swim in and refer to as "money", you are free to do so.<

Well, I'm free to question your logic. You want to believe that Scrooge mostly hordes nickels,
dimes, quarters, and silver dollars, and want to believe that Barks paintings and European
editions are wrong to show the coins as gold. As evidence you point to:
1. ignorant colorists (I've shown that American colorists were no different)
2. Barks paintings done for non-comics reading collectors (I've shown that most money bin motifs
were developed in the 70's for comics collectors.)
3. that there were/are no American gold coins used as "money" (this is just plain wrong, look up
the total ciruclation numbers, I'll bet you will be shocked.)

Here is your original assertion:
>But this misses the entire point of the Barks' original humor of $crooge's Money Bin -- it is
filled with ordinary pocket change. Pennies and nickels and dimes and quarters and silver dollars
and $1 bills, etc".<

Again, I challenge you to show me, within Barks own work and words, the evidence for this.

Like I said, you are certainly free to believe as you wish with whatever faulty line of reasoning
you want to cling to, but don't expect such assertions to go unchallenged.

Rodney:

> it seems obvious to me that the
> stories take place in the USA. Perhaps this is because I
> live here and
> it's easier for me to visualize the stories taking place in
> this country.

Yep. For the same reason, the Ducks live in (or near) Holland to most Dutch
readers. Etcetera.
After all, the Ducks speak Dutch, use the Dutch currency, and their names
are Dutch (with some exceptions). As a child, you don't think further. Only
later you realise that the deserts and high-rise buildings don't look very
Dutch at all...

--Harry.

Olivier (on March 2 - I know, very old mail...)

O> If Donald and the boys say so, then the lady in FG '45
O> certainly is "Grandma".
H> She appeared for the first time in the Donald Duck
H> newspaper daily from September 27, 1943.
O> Any idea when she eventually got to look like the one we know?
O> Or was the '43 Grandma closer?

I think the 1943 newspaper strip Grandma looks quite like the present one.
Maybe some details are different. Barks's Grandma from 1945 is indeed
different - but so was Barks's Donald at that time...

--Harry.

Timo:
>>as I watched the webpage for german Micky Mouse there was a map
>>of Entenhausen(Duckburg) which showed Donald's, Mickey's
>>houses and Scrooge's Money Bin

What's the address, please?
Thanks.

Olivier

Re: the color of money

A point that I find emerging most recently from the discussion of the
color of the money in Scrooge's money bin (see the recent remarks by
Don Rosa and John Garvin), is the matter of traditions introduced not
by the decisions of creators, or publishers, or even editors, but by
the production/printing process. It was, for instance, production
issues that imposed the usage of "!" at the end of every sentence in
a word balloon that wasn't a question, that limited the color pallets
of four color comics for decades (even as late as the mid-1980s the
"standard" comics color pallet consisted of no more than 64
unvariable colors), and even determined the physical page-image
proportions within which artists were to work. The very four-color
newsprint aesthetic of American comic books from their inception
until the latter 1970s was entirely based on matters pertaining to
production/printing and the economics of same. And if you think this
aesthetic didn't have the qualities and weight of tradition, just
consider that it took a major decade-long market shift to get it
through to the major publishers that they didn't have to keep doing
things that way, and even a little longer for it to sink in that they
*couldn't*.
--
Gary

****************************
"Good night, and may God Bless...good night." - Red Skelton
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gladstone on the Web: http://www.brucehamilton.com/gladstone

It seems that next to Star Trek, Mike Oldfield's music is
the next-most common OT-favorite of Disney fans.
Scientists are baffled at the phenomenon. :-)

Another curious coincidence is the cooperation between
Mike Oldfield and Finnish composer Pekka Pohjola (see
http://www.ommadawn.dk/mou/pekka.html )

We have a list member by the name of Mike Pohjola(!!)
and I wonder if the name is the Finnish equivalent of
"Jones" or there's some family relation or such?

I own a record by Oldfield/Pohjola but no record player. :-(

-- Ole (trying to decide what goes in a 1 X 1 X 2 foot box
for a stay of undecided length on a desert island.)