Keskustelujen arkisto

In Germany these inserts (since 1984 called "Extras") in the MM
weekly have an old tradition. The first useful insert (in contrast to
some advertisment in the years before) was published in 1958. The
number of inserts grew annually.
About 1970 they started to put cardboarded inserts into the issues, where people could build Grandma
Duck's farm or Scrooge's money bin and things like that.
Since 1976 these "Extras" are published weekly. Nowadays they
unfortunately don't put cardboarded inserts into the issues any more,
but plastic toys like water pistols or then and when a CD-ROM (mostly
with demo versions of the latest Disney PC games or Disney
screensavers).

Some collectors pay dozens or even hundreds of Euros for the old
inserts from the 50s to the 70s (even for the advertisement), because
they are harder to find than the old issues of the weeklies
themselves.

Best regards,
Arne.

Greetings, members.
For Gilles Maurice, Harry and the rest regarding Ludwig von Drake's
relationship to Donald:

The November-December 1961 Ludwig von Drake No.1 (introductory comic book for
that character), showed Ludwig coming to Duckburg (in U.S.A.)for the first
time, to meet his American relatives (the Duck Family). So, at least we have
established that he IS a blood relative of Donald, Daisy, Scrooge, Grandma,
Gladstone, Gus, and even Gyro was there. (I assume Gyro was not there because
he was related by blood (as he is a chicken-according to Barks). Donald refered
to Ludwig as: "Our distinguished relative". He did not mention the relationship
to himself. The story was titled: "Ludwig von Drake in Duckburg, U.S.A.".

Donald calls him "Ludwig". Huey, Dewey, and Louie call him "Professor
Ludwig". No one in that story, or indeed, in any of the stories in his comic
book series (1-4 of 1961-1962), refers to their familial relationship with him.
However, we have conformation of the general family relationship, in No.3 of
his comic book series. In the second story ("Family Tree Spree"), Ludwig
researches Donald's family tree, and realises that he, himself is related to
Donald, and, thus, shares (at least a portion of) that family tree. The actual
relationship is not shown.

Harry,- i believe your memory serves you well. I believe that Ludwig was
refered to as "Oom" (Uncle) in Dutch Donald Duck. This does not, however, mean
that he is ACTUALLY his UNCLE by blood. I have several cousins who are at
least one generation older than I, whom I refer to as "Oom". I know several
other people in other families who do the same.

I would say that we should consider him a Great Uncle of Donald, as the only
references in comic books or animation regard him as "Uncle".

Rob
Klein

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Stefan Persson:
> * Barks has only used Ludwig once, and that on a cover.
Barks has used Ludwig once in a one-pager with Grandma: 'Flowers are
flowers'.
> * Van Horn has not used him at all.
Van Horn has drawn Ludwig at least once in a 'family tree' (along with
Flintheart and Magica) which can be seen at Gilles's page.
But none of these facts is significant, 'cause your final remark still stands:
Authors who don't use a character very often can hardly be regarded as
significant authorities on that character. (Unless perhaps they've invented
the character. You can't, for example, ignore the fact that Barks is the
creator of Rockerduck, although he has used him only once.)
I don't know if it's wise to mingle in this discussion, but I do have an
opinion on the subject.
(Dutch readers know how much value can be attached to 'opinions'.)
(Oh, this is an injoke about a statement by our Prince, and recently by
staatssecretaris Nijs. It's not meant to be offensive.)
The question started with Sigvald's remark that a webpage about
Ludwig von Drake lacked an "important fact" (I use these "marks only to
quote) namely Ludwig's supposed marriage to Matilda McDuck.
I think it's not about how important such 'facts' are, but about how well-
known they are. The author of the Von Drake-site is most likely no
member of DCML, may not have taken any interest in Duck-Family-
Tree-sites such as Duckhunt and Calisota Online and may even not be
interested in Don Rosa-stories. (Which is why I *did* find out about
Ludwig being supposed to be married to Matilda, cause I *am*
interested, but this "Bill at VonDrake.com" probably didn't.)
We, DCML members with an interest in Don Rosa-stories, do know
about this supposed marriage, but that doesn't make it an well-known
fact, or even an official fact. Even if it will be shown in a story or a
cartoon it may not become well-known, only 'official', for what it's worth.
You can't blame anyone who is dedicated to Von Drake-cartoons but
not to Don Rosa-stories for omitting a 'fact' that he's not very likely to
encounter. You can't blame anyone for not taking an interest in Don
Rosa-stories or in Don Rosa-related pages.
And I think you can't blame an economic magazine for estimating
$crooge's fortune at 8.2 billion dollars, for being ignorant of the fact that
$crooge is really a fantasticatrillionaire, which is, I'm afraid, not very well
known. I, for one, was glad to see $crooge listed along with Charles
Foster Kane and Jay Gatsby and other well-known American
characters.

Gilles Maurice:
> Do you think i should give names to his parents in my duck family
> tree? (even if i specify that it's unofficial).
Why not? If you like the names and the site they stem from, I don't
directly see why you shouldn't use them in your tree, especially since you
haven't any other names and since they sound 'ducky' enough. Canard
and Mallordy von Drake would fit in very well!
(Note that Bill gives Ludwig a brother, too.)

I think it's a very enjoyable site!
Semi-off topic: in the lowest picture on the page with Ludwig's
biography (http://vondrake.com/vondrake/index.htm) Ludwig looks (to
me at least) a bit like Back to the Future's dr. Emmett Brown.
(Whose family emigrated to America in the early 20th century and was
first called von Braun. I think they were supposed to come from
Germany, but it could also have been Austria :)

Last bit: at first I thought that Don Rosa wanted to give Ludwig a place
in his Family Tree only because of that sole Barks-onepager.
In a mail to DCML in april this year Don Rosa wrote that he liked
Ludwig as a character. I wonder if Don would have thought about
including Ludwig in the tree if Carl Barks hadn't used him at all. If he
would have gone as far as wanting to include a character in the tree just
because he liked that character. And suppose Don would have *liked*
Fethry, maybe he wouldn't be opposed to Fethry's being in the tree
(except for the fact that Barks never used Fethry, of course).

Ooo, this is getting sooo trivial and verrry (fethry?) insignificant.

And Gilles, why don't you let Biquinho be Whitewater's son in your
tree? If you don't know who B's parents are and if it's nowhere stated
that B is *not* W's son, and since B is Fethry's nephew and W is
supposed to be F's brother, then B could very well be W's son.

Michiel Prior.

In a message dated 11/13/2002 3:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
M.J.Prior at let.rug.nl writes:

> I
> have a further question regarding the word 'pizen': how is it pronounced?
> Like p-eye-zen, to rhyme with wizened?
>

since it is a misprounciation of poison, it is close in sounding like that
piz-en

steven rowe

M.J. Prior wrote:
>...regarding the word 'pizen': how is it pronounced?
>Like p-eye-zen, to rhyme with wizened?

"Pizen" is pronounce with a long "i" (like "eye").
"Wizened" is pronounced with a short "i" (like "isn't")

Sonia

For Sigvald and Stefan: Yes, Barks used Ludwig only once,-but in a one-page gag-
NOT on a cover.

Tony Strobl drew several stories in Ludwig's own comic series (1-4 1961-62), in
which Ludwig DID live in Donald's house. Though not stated, specifically, it
is implied that Ludwig has come from Austria (referred to as "The Old
Country"), to visit his relatives in Duckburg, USA. He stays with Donald first.
It is implied that this goes on for several months, as he builds up bills (from
expenses) over a period. After that period, he decides he will stay for a
while, and then (issue No.2) we see him in his OWN house in Duckburg. He COULD
HAVE ben married at some previous time, but no comic book story, children's
book or animation reference has been made to that (to my knowledge). It IS
possible that his wife's death or divorcing him, freed him to finally come to
USA. But, it is more logical to assume that he NEVER has been married, -
otherwise one of the many storytellers describing events from his life, would
have mentioned that.

For Michiel: Precies! "Pizen" IS meant to be pronounced with "long I" as p-eye-
zen, and rhymes with wizened (at least, the way I have always heard it
pronounced).

"Beulhart Klif" In my opinion, is the best choice of the Dutch translations
used, as it refers to the deadly abruptness of the edge of the landform.
However, that does not account for the "poison" aspect and use of "Pizen".
perhaps "Vergiftig Steile Kaap" would be more accurate -but too long and
cumbersome, and not very clever. "Beulshart" is clever, colourful and funny,
and makes the point. I believe the "Pizen" element only was used to place an
element of "deadliness" in the name -NOT to imply poisened water, or so. Then,
the use of "Klif", gives the name an "American West" feeling. So, in this case,
IMO, the translater did a good job. Stofdorp? How did they come up with such a
dull idea???

For Sonia: Although I am now middle-aged and many people have pointed out that
my mental powers are diminishing rapidly (nietwaar, Harry?); I seem to remember
never hearing the English word "wizened" pronounced with short I, but ONLY with
long I. Admittedly ALL those people were Canadians, Brits, other Europeans, or
Canadians and Ex-Canadians (aaarrrgggh!) in USA. I don't remember ever hearing
a US born and bread person using that word. It is true, that I don't spend much
time talking to people (in English) when in USA. And, I guess the people i do
contact have small vocabularies or speak only Spanish. Is it possible, then,
that the vowel varies from short to long in the various geographical dialects
of English throughout the World (as does the pronunciation of so many words)?

Sorry for the OFF-TOPIC here, - but at least it wasn't ill-spirited!

Rob
Klein

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ROB:

> "Pizen" IS meant to be pronounced with "long I" as
> p-eye- zen, and rhymes with wizened (at least, the way I have always heard
> it pronounced).
> ...
> I seem to
> remember never hearing the English word "wizened" pronounced with short I,
> but ONLY with long I.

All this discussion about long and short "i"s got me thoroughly confused
regarding the pronunciation of "wizened". I visited the Merriam-Webster
site (http://www.m-w.com/) which provides audio samples for the entries
in their dictionary, and it would seem that the correct American way
of pronouncing the word is with a short "i". I wouldn't be surprised,
however, if many people pronounce it with a long "i", incorrectly
associating the word with the word "wise".

This still leaves us in the dark about the correct way to pronounce "pizen",
as this is not in the dictionary!

Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Making things Right is my profession. Cheating Death's just a hobby..."
-----

"Donald D. Markstein" wrote:

> For a long time, I thought of Uncle Scrooge as more likely
> a grand-uncle

And that is correct seen from a certain point of view -
since he is indeed HD&L's grand-uncle.

> called "Uncle" simply because it's a more common form of
> address for that relationship.

Yes, that's whay HD&L address him as "uncle".

> A member of Grandma's generation, in other words,

OK, Grandma (born ca. 1855) is around 12 years older than
Scrooge (born 1867) so I guess that they can be said to
belong to the same generation if you consider their
age only.

But both Barks and Rosa shows that Grandma is Scrooge's
sister's mother in-law!

> In fact, I still think that, despite Don Rosa's spelling
> out of the relationship.

He only states facts given by Scrooge's creator Carl Barks.
And remember that in a previous posting our Danish friend
Lars Jensen, has stated that a character's creator is the
first to know that characters relationships with other
characters.

Sigvald :-)