----- Original Message -----
From: "Mads Jensen" <astrup_jensen at hotmail.com>
To: <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: den 27 november 2002 19:10
Subject: The Dream of a Lifetime ?
MADS:
> Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" with the untrue facts?
Please define what you mean with an "untrue fact."
Stefan
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Author
Topic: 200211
(577 messages)
Stefan Persson
The Dream of a Lifetime ?
Message 526 -
2002-11-27 at 20:13:51
Mads Jensen
The Dream of a Lifetime
Message 527 -
2002-11-27 at 20:19:46
hi again
> Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" with the untrue facts?
an untrue fact would be something that Rosa made up himself.
I.e. not wrote by Barks!
/Mads
> Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" with the untrue facts?
an untrue fact would be something that Rosa made up himself.
I.e. not wrote by Barks!
/Mads
Stefan Persson
The Dream of a Lifetime
Message 528 -
2002-11-27 at 20:22:32
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mads Jensen" <astrup_jensen at hotmail.com>
To: <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: den 27 november 2002 19:19
Subject: Re: The Dream of a Lifetime
> > Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" with the untrue facts?
> an untrue fact would be something that Rosa made up himself.
> I.e. not wrote by Barks!
What about facts made up by other creator? E.g., Daisy being Donald's
girlfriend is a Karp/Talliaferro fact.
Stefan
From: "Mads Jensen" <astrup_jensen at hotmail.com>
To: <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: den 27 november 2002 19:19
Subject: Re: The Dream of a Lifetime
> > Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" with the untrue facts?
> an untrue fact would be something that Rosa made up himself.
> I.e. not wrote by Barks!
What about facts made up by other creator? E.g., Daisy being Donald's
girlfriend is a Karp/Talliaferro fact.
Stefan
Rob Klein
Donald's Size/Wuwelak
Message 529 -
2002-11-27 at 21:12:42
For Alejandro Murgia: Barks change in the Ducks to taller, more upright figures
from mid-1957 through 1959 may have been an attempt to make them more human.
This MAY, or MAY NOT have resulted in an attempt to make them more expressive,
to make up for the fact that he had had to use shorter, tighter, more careful
strokes, because of the reduction in paper quality in 1955-56. Western
Publishing changed from Strathmore Bond Weave (very absorbent of ink), to a
clay-coated thinner paper (whose surface was much less absorbent). The
strokes skidded across the paper, causing errors. The paper tore easily.
Western changed the paper AGAIN in early-mid 1959 (late 1959 and 1960
printings), to a much more slick-surfaced type, which held the ink much less
well. It caused the ink to blob and run. Barks had to draw much, much more
carefully, and needed to shorten and tighten his strokes even more
drastically. This latter change, caused a reduction in the "springiness" of
his characters, and they became much more static. The 1959 change affected Tony
Strobl's work even more, causing his figures to become "angular, or squarish",
and fully lacking in "life". While the earlier change in paper quality was
probably not the deciding factor in Barks' increase in the Ducks height and
stature changes, I believe the 1959 paper change may well have been a deciding
factor in Barks' change back to the shorter, more compact figures.
For Simon deBeer: Barks used Esterbrook No. 356 Art and Drafting Pen. That
series contained quill-type split point pens, having varying degrees of point
radius (size), stiffness and springiness. I believe Barks' was one of the
smaller and springier pens in that line. I do not believe that
the "springiness" of his strokes could have been achieved with the stiffer pens.
For Leo Schulte, Gerd, Roy, and Timo: Thanks Roy, for the definition of
Wuwelak. I seem to remember that word from my childhood, being a monster from
the forest. I looked it up in a Czech dictionary. The closest word was vyvelot
(equivalent to wuwelot-which is close to wuwelak. It means one who
is 'changeable" or "excitable". I did not find it in a polish dictionary, nor
the Hungarian dictionary. Although, Slavic-sounding, I thought it might have
been borrowed by all of the Central and Eastern European folklores. This
information, together with closely related words meaning "vampire", "monster"
and "tree, as spirit protector of the forest", may be various manifestations of
ancient Indo-European legends, older than the time when the Germanic, Baltic
and Slavic peoples separated. The Indo-European root word "wel" (common in all
the versions we quoted may have indicated a "changeling". That is to say:(1)
the vampire is a "spirit of nature" which changes form from human to wolf, bat
or other beast; (2) the "monster" in folklore often changes in form, from an
ordinary animal or human (upon the trigger of its "excitement", the "protector
tree" changes from an ordinary tree to its animated (superpowerful form),
when "excited" by a danger to the forest.
Rob Klein
---------------------------------------------
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from mid-1957 through 1959 may have been an attempt to make them more human.
This MAY, or MAY NOT have resulted in an attempt to make them more expressive,
to make up for the fact that he had had to use shorter, tighter, more careful
strokes, because of the reduction in paper quality in 1955-56. Western
Publishing changed from Strathmore Bond Weave (very absorbent of ink), to a
clay-coated thinner paper (whose surface was much less absorbent). The
strokes skidded across the paper, causing errors. The paper tore easily.
Western changed the paper AGAIN in early-mid 1959 (late 1959 and 1960
printings), to a much more slick-surfaced type, which held the ink much less
well. It caused the ink to blob and run. Barks had to draw much, much more
carefully, and needed to shorten and tighten his strokes even more
drastically. This latter change, caused a reduction in the "springiness" of
his characters, and they became much more static. The 1959 change affected Tony
Strobl's work even more, causing his figures to become "angular, or squarish",
and fully lacking in "life". While the earlier change in paper quality was
probably not the deciding factor in Barks' increase in the Ducks height and
stature changes, I believe the 1959 paper change may well have been a deciding
factor in Barks' change back to the shorter, more compact figures.
For Simon deBeer: Barks used Esterbrook No. 356 Art and Drafting Pen. That
series contained quill-type split point pens, having varying degrees of point
radius (size), stiffness and springiness. I believe Barks' was one of the
smaller and springier pens in that line. I do not believe that
the "springiness" of his strokes could have been achieved with the stiffer pens.
For Leo Schulte, Gerd, Roy, and Timo: Thanks Roy, for the definition of
Wuwelak. I seem to remember that word from my childhood, being a monster from
the forest. I looked it up in a Czech dictionary. The closest word was vyvelot
(equivalent to wuwelot-which is close to wuwelak. It means one who
is 'changeable" or "excitable". I did not find it in a polish dictionary, nor
the Hungarian dictionary. Although, Slavic-sounding, I thought it might have
been borrowed by all of the Central and Eastern European folklores. This
information, together with closely related words meaning "vampire", "monster"
and "tree, as spirit protector of the forest", may be various manifestations of
ancient Indo-European legends, older than the time when the Germanic, Baltic
and Slavic peoples separated. The Indo-European root word "wel" (common in all
the versions we quoted may have indicated a "changeling". That is to say:(1)
the vampire is a "spirit of nature" which changes form from human to wolf, bat
or other beast; (2) the "monster" in folklore often changes in form, from an
ordinary animal or human (upon the trigger of its "excitement", the "protector
tree" changes from an ordinary tree to its animated (superpowerful form),
when "excited" by a danger to the forest.
Rob Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
M.J. Prior
Douglas McDuck
Message 530 -
2002-11-27 at 21:40:53
To Lars Jensen and Gilles Maurice:
Wow! I never realised the writer of "Gall in the family"
could also be on this mailinglist and yet there you are,
Lars! Thanks for your explanation.
It's a pity your editor wouldn't allow your homage to Herg?
to be shown more explicitly (i.e. show a Tintin album in the
artwork) but I still like it! :)
> in the story (at least in the french version), Douglas
> tells "the McDucks
> have always been the most intelligent in the family"...
> so it implied that he wasn't a Mcduck...
In the Dutch version it's only "your side of the family", so
this could be only a matter of translation. Douglas could
have meant "Scrooge's father's side" as opposed to "Douglas'
father's side". Their fathers could still be brothers, so
Douglas could still be a McDuck.
Perhaps it's a suggestion to take Scrooge's 'Scottish'
cousins as sons of Jake McDuck, and his 'American' cousins
as sons of Pothole?
Michiel Prior.
Wow! I never realised the writer of "Gall in the family"
could also be on this mailinglist and yet there you are,
Lars! Thanks for your explanation.
It's a pity your editor wouldn't allow your homage to Herg?
to be shown more explicitly (i.e. show a Tintin album in the
artwork) but I still like it! :)
> in the story (at least in the french version), Douglas
> tells "the McDucks
> have always been the most intelligent in the family"...
> so it implied that he wasn't a Mcduck...
In the Dutch version it's only "your side of the family", so
this could be only a matter of translation. Douglas could
have meant "Scrooge's father's side" as opposed to "Douglas'
father's side". Their fathers could still be brothers, so
Douglas could still be a McDuck.
Perhaps it's a suggestion to take Scrooge's 'Scottish'
cousins as sons of Jake McDuck, and his 'American' cousins
as sons of Pothole?
Michiel Prior.
Rob Klein
Wuwelak (more)
Message 531 -
2002-11-27 at 23:43:47
For our Greek members regarding Wuwelak: I remember reading about an evil
spirit (of bad luck) called "Vrovoleka" or "Frovoleka" from a Greek story.
There was also an American film from 1940 or 1941, starring Boris Karloff which
included that old Greek legend. he played a general in the Greek army, who
ordered the entire populace of an island to remain in quarantine, as his army
doctor had found bubonic plague there. The old-fashioned supersticious
islanders claimed that the outbreak of plague was caused by the "Frovoleka"
(evil spirit). They claimed that the "murderous general and his evil war" had
brought that evil spirit to the island as a punishment. The "Frovoleka" is
supposed to suck all the life out of its victims (as a vampyre). This is very
close to "Wuwelak" (noting that the letter "W" in Germanic and Slavic languages
is pronounced as English "V", as is the Greek sound in the same position in
that word. Could the Frovoleka have the same original ancient Indo-European
source as the (Slavic?) terms we remember as meaning "monster", "vampyre", and
changeling spirit?
Rob
Klein
---------------------------------------------
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http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
spirit (of bad luck) called "Vrovoleka" or "Frovoleka" from a Greek story.
There was also an American film from 1940 or 1941, starring Boris Karloff which
included that old Greek legend. he played a general in the Greek army, who
ordered the entire populace of an island to remain in quarantine, as his army
doctor had found bubonic plague there. The old-fashioned supersticious
islanders claimed that the outbreak of plague was caused by the "Frovoleka"
(evil spirit). They claimed that the "murderous general and his evil war" had
brought that evil spirit to the island as a punishment. The "Frovoleka" is
supposed to suck all the life out of its victims (as a vampyre). This is very
close to "Wuwelak" (noting that the letter "W" in Germanic and Slavic languages
is pronounced as English "V", as is the Greek sound in the same position in
that word. Could the Frovoleka have the same original ancient Indo-European
source as the (Slavic?) terms we remember as meaning "monster", "vampyre", and
changeling spirit?
Rob
Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
Sigvald
The Dream of a Lifetime
Message 532 -
2002-11-28 at 00:14:05
"Mads Jensen" <astrup_jensen at hotmail.com> skrev:
>> Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut"
>> with the untrue facts? An untrue fact would be
>> something that Rosa made up himself. I.e. not wrote
>> by Barks!
1. The story shows sceens from various Don Rosa stories about
Scrooges younger days.
2. Some people like Lars Jensen, Harry Fluks and others don't
like it very much when someone claims that Barks or Barks/Rosa
is canon. So you should be careful with your statements.
Sigvald :-)
>> Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut"
>> with the untrue facts? An untrue fact would be
>> something that Rosa made up himself. I.e. not wrote
>> by Barks!
1. The story shows sceens from various Don Rosa stories about
Scrooges younger days.
2. Some people like Lars Jensen, Harry Fluks and others don't
like it very much when someone claims that Barks or Barks/Rosa
is canon. So you should be careful with your statements.
Sigvald :-)
Fabio Blanco
The Dream of a Lifetime ?
Message 533 -
2002-11-28 at 00:14:45
>>>
> MADS:
> > Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" with the untrue facts?
>
Untrue facts? what you mean with "untrue" related to fiction...??? All is
true... only the facts, Madam.
All came from imagination. Barks created a very grumpy and near mean man
Scrooge. Later he make him sweeter. Mr. Rosa "find" the moment of the
change...
Don Rosa is a great artist... and like artist he discover these facts occult
on the Imagination Realm...
Mads, please let me say, you'll can enjoy reading Promethea, where Alan
Moore share the Inmateria concept, the non material part of the Universe
where all ideas are born...
cheers
FABIO
> MADS:
> > Is it similar to "The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut" with the untrue facts?
>
Untrue facts? what you mean with "untrue" related to fiction...??? All is
true... only the facts, Madam.
All came from imagination. Barks created a very grumpy and near mean man
Scrooge. Later he make him sweeter. Mr. Rosa "find" the moment of the
change...
Don Rosa is a great artist... and like artist he discover these facts occult
on the Imagination Realm...
Mads, please let me say, you'll can enjoy reading Promethea, where Alan
Moore share the Inmateria concept, the non material part of the Universe
where all ideas are born...
cheers
FABIO
Timo Ronkainen
Wuwelak (more)
Message 534 -
2002-11-28 at 00:53:33
>spirit (of bad luck) called "Vrovoleka" or "Frovoleka" from a Greek story.
>There was also an American film from 1940 or 1941, starring Boris Karloff
>which
I had to check this out, as my memory is what it is, but there is Italian
movie I Tre Volti della Paura (1963 by Mario Bava) with tree episodes. Last
episode is called Wurdalak and it is based on Leo Tolstoi's short story of
same name. Boris Karloff plays Russian dad that comes back home as vampire -
Wurdalak. In Greek mythology vampire is called Vrykolakas.
This is getting pretty off topic, but it's clear that Erica Fuchs was well
aware of myths and such, and put much effort on her job when she translated
these comics.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>There was also an American film from 1940 or 1941, starring Boris Karloff
>which
I had to check this out, as my memory is what it is, but there is Italian
movie I Tre Volti della Paura (1963 by Mario Bava) with tree episodes. Last
episode is called Wurdalak and it is based on Leo Tolstoi's short story of
same name. Boris Karloff plays Russian dad that comes back home as vampire -
Wurdalak. In Greek mythology vampire is called Vrykolakas.
This is getting pretty off topic, but it's clear that Erica Fuchs was well
aware of myths and such, and put much effort on her job when she translated
these comics.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Fabio Blanco
The Dream of a Lifetime
Message 535 -
2002-11-28 at 03:23:52
------
Be careful you too, sonny. Or you shall receive some ugly virus or some big
packed greeks with unpleasant gifts to you...
And you call me "godfather", ok?
Don Fabio :-)
> 2. Some people like Lars Jensen, Harry Fluks and others don't
> like it very much when someone claims that Barks or Barks/Rosa
> is canon. So you should be careful with your statements.
>
> Sigvald :-)
Be careful you too, sonny. Or you shall receive some ugly virus or some big
packed greeks with unpleasant gifts to you...
And you call me "godfather", ok?
Don Fabio :-)
> 2. Some people like Lars Jensen, Harry Fluks and others don't
> like it very much when someone claims that Barks or Barks/Rosa
> is canon. So you should be careful with your statements.
>
> Sigvald :-)
Kriton Kyrimis
Wuwelak (more)
Message 536 -
2002-11-28 at 09:55:57
ROB:
> For our Greek members regarding Wuwelak: I remember reading about an evil
> spirit (of bad luck) called "Vrovoleka" or "Frovoleka" from a Greek story.
I've never heard of this word. On the other hand, I have heard of the
word "vrykolakas" that Timo mentioned, which is routinely used as the
equivalent of "vampire", though the term actually means an evil thing
that has come back from the dead.
I'm not quite sure how this off-topic discussion started, but if this
keeps up, I am going to look up the word in my dictionary, and let you
know of the etymology of this word, which I doubt whether it is ancient
Greek, as Timo suggested.
Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Oh, just punch up 7 4 3 8 O O O W 8 I 1 2 1 2 7 2 7 2 9 double 1 E 8 E X 4 1
1 1 3 0 9 11 5 and then see what happens!"
-----
> For our Greek members regarding Wuwelak: I remember reading about an evil
> spirit (of bad luck) called "Vrovoleka" or "Frovoleka" from a Greek story.
I've never heard of this word. On the other hand, I have heard of the
word "vrykolakas" that Timo mentioned, which is routinely used as the
equivalent of "vampire", though the term actually means an evil thing
that has come back from the dead.
I'm not quite sure how this off-topic discussion started, but if this
keeps up, I am going to look up the word in my dictionary, and let you
know of the etymology of this word, which I doubt whether it is ancient
Greek, as Timo suggested.
Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Oh, just punch up 7 4 3 8 O O O W 8 I 1 2 1 2 7 2 7 2 9 double 1 E 8 E X 4 1
1 1 3 0 9 11 5 and then see what happens!"
-----
H.W.Fluks
Sigvald Groesfjeld
Message 537 -
2002-11-28 at 10:34:28
Sigvald wrote:
> Some people like Lars Jensen, Harry Fluks and others don't
> like it very much [..]
> So you should be careful with your statements.
I do not plan to kill anyone. Not before Christmas, anyway.
--Harry.
> Some people like Lars Jensen, Harry Fluks and others don't
> like it very much [..]
> So you should be careful with your statements.
I do not plan to kill anyone. Not before Christmas, anyway.
--Harry.
Gerd Syllwasschy
Donald's Size/Wuwelak
Message 538 -
2002-11-28 at 11:08:41
About the change to upright ducks: I seem to remember I once read a
Dutch article (interview with Daan Jippes? I'm not sure) where it was
stated that this was caused by a new model sheet drawn by Al Taliaferro.
I think it was Dani?l who pointed me to this information. Dani?l, maybe
you remember?
Wuwela(c)k: Hey, this is really getting interesting! :-) I have to point
out one thing: The site found by Roy (about W. being a "protection
spirit of the forest") is just literally quoting Fuchs' translation, so
this shouldn't be taken as etymological evidence.
Gerd
Dutch article (interview with Daan Jippes? I'm not sure) where it was
stated that this was caused by a new model sheet drawn by Al Taliaferro.
I think it was Dani?l who pointed me to this information. Dani?l, maybe
you remember?
Wuwela(c)k: Hey, this is really getting interesting! :-) I have to point
out one thing: The site found by Roy (about W. being a "protection
spirit of the forest") is just literally quoting Fuchs' translation, so
this shouldn't be taken as etymological evidence.
Gerd
Gerd Syllwasschy
Donald's Size/Wuwelak
Message 539 -
2002-11-28 at 11:08:41
About the change to upright ducks: I seem to remember I once read a
Dutch article (interview with Daan Jippes? I'm not sure) where it was
stated that this was caused by a new model sheet drawn by Al Taliaferro.
I think it was Dani?l who pointed me to this information. Dani?l, maybe
you remember?
Wuwela(c)k: Hey, this is really getting interesting! :-) I have to point
out one thing: The site found by Roy (about W. being a "protection
spirit of the forest") is just literally quoting Fuchs' translation, so
this shouldn't be taken as etymological evidence.
Gerd
Dutch article (interview with Daan Jippes? I'm not sure) where it was
stated that this was caused by a new model sheet drawn by Al Taliaferro.
I think it was Dani?l who pointed me to this information. Dani?l, maybe
you remember?
Wuwela(c)k: Hey, this is really getting interesting! :-) I have to point
out one thing: The site found by Roy (about W. being a "protection
spirit of the forest") is just literally quoting Fuchs' translation, so
this shouldn't be taken as etymological evidence.
Gerd
Sigvald
About the atmosphere on DCML
Message 540 -
2002-11-28 at 16:09:47
Hi all!
The last day or so some postings have disturbed the good
atmosphere here at DCML. I can see my part of this and
apologize to Harry Fluks and to Lars Jensen for using
their names in my answer to Mads. I meant NO OFFENCE by
that ? I just wanted to be concrete.
Anyway it?s still harming the good atmosphere here at DCML
when some people are reacting only against my answer to
Mads and not also against his "Rosa- criticism". There MUST
be some logic and *one law* for everybody in here.
So if it?s OK when Mads says that Rosa?s views are UNTRUE,
then other DCML-members should have the exact same right
to say that some of Marco Rota?s, Al Taliaferro?s or Tony
Strobl?s views are UNTRUE. If it?s OK when Mads indicates
that he sees Barks as "canon" then other DCML-members should
have the exact same right to indicate that they see both
Barks and Rosa as "canon".
Sigvald :-)
The last day or so some postings have disturbed the good
atmosphere here at DCML. I can see my part of this and
apologize to Harry Fluks and to Lars Jensen for using
their names in my answer to Mads. I meant NO OFFENCE by
that ? I just wanted to be concrete.
Anyway it?s still harming the good atmosphere here at DCML
when some people are reacting only against my answer to
Mads and not also against his "Rosa- criticism". There MUST
be some logic and *one law* for everybody in here.
So if it?s OK when Mads says that Rosa?s views are UNTRUE,
then other DCML-members should have the exact same right
to say that some of Marco Rota?s, Al Taliaferro?s or Tony
Strobl?s views are UNTRUE. If it?s OK when Mads indicates
that he sees Barks as "canon" then other DCML-members should
have the exact same right to indicate that they see both
Barks and Rosa as "canon".
Sigvald :-)