----- Original Message -----
From: "M.J. Prior" <M.J.Prior at let.rug.nl>
To: <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:34 PM
Subject: Reaction to Sigvald, Rob, Kriton, Rich and about Ludwig
> The 'relatives' are: Donald, Daisy, Gladstone, Gus, Grandma, $crooge,
> Gyro, Huey and Louie. (It must be the same story.)
So Ludwig is a relative to Huey and Louie, but not to Dewey? Interesting!
Maybe H&L were once married with any former wife to Ludwig? :-)
Stefan
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Author
Topic: 200211
(577 messages)
Stefan Persson
Reaction to Sigvald, Rob, Kriton, Rich and about Ludwig
Message 241 -
2002-11-14 at 22:55:16
M.J. Prior
Free shot
Message 242 -
2002-11-14 at 22:58:18
Soeren to Sigvald:
> The fact (...) apparently forces you to make a conclusion which aims
> at the exact opposite.
Sigvald to Soeren:
>> Apart from the rubbish above, I had hoped that you knew
>> your Ludwig better. He has never showed any interest in
>> the opposite sex as far as I know.
> And when did Granda Duck show a greater interest in men???
Michiel.
> The fact (...) apparently forces you to make a conclusion which aims
> at the exact opposite.
Sigvald to Soeren:
>> Apart from the rubbish above, I had hoped that you knew
>> your Ludwig better. He has never showed any interest in
>> the opposite sex as far as I know.
> And when did Granda Duck show a greater interest in men???
Michiel.
Simon De Beer
Ludwig on the railway platform
Message 243 -
2002-11-15 at 00:08:08
I missed some of the earlier discussion. Will someone please tell me who was
the artist in the story which begins with Ludwig's relatives waiting on the
railway platform to greet him. Thanks.
Simon de Beer
Apologies for my previous message which was in html format - I forgot to
change it.
the artist in the story which begins with Ludwig's relatives waiting on the
railway platform to greet him. Thanks.
Simon de Beer
Apologies for my previous message which was in html format - I forgot to
change it.
Simon De Beer
Strobl
Message 244 -
2002-11-15 at 00:10:04
Rob Klein wrote
>Tony Strobl was my SECOND favourite Duck artist while >growing up. So, I
can understand someone choosing him >as their favourite. However, I refer
only to his work which >was printed from 1947-1958. His work starting in
1959, >became progressively worse, because he needed to crank >out as much
artwork as possible, as he was in desperate >need of money. Also, the work
of later artists, Daan >Jippes, Freddy Milton, Ben Verhagen, Jan Gulbransson
(at >his best), and Mau Heymans have now surpassed Strobl in >my pantheon.
Even so,I still like his work very much.
Fascinating stuff Rob. Where did you glean that from? I know so little
about Strobl & would love to know more. Could you suggest any
sources/websites?
Whilst I do think Barks has been perhaps pre-eminent, I was being slightly
tongue in cheek in my original post. I don't understand the biblical status
bestowed on Barks which is so limiting and means many other excellent
artists, such as Strobl, are not given due recognition. But this is a
discussion which we have already had time & again.
>Tony Strobl was my SECOND favourite Duck artist while >growing up. So, I
can understand someone choosing him >as their favourite. However, I refer
only to his work which >was printed from 1947-1958. His work starting in
1959, >became progressively worse, because he needed to crank >out as much
artwork as possible, as he was in desperate >need of money. Also, the work
of later artists, Daan >Jippes, Freddy Milton, Ben Verhagen, Jan Gulbransson
(at >his best), and Mau Heymans have now surpassed Strobl in >my pantheon.
Even so,I still like his work very much.
Fascinating stuff Rob. Where did you glean that from? I know so little
about Strobl & would love to know more. Could you suggest any
sources/websites?
Whilst I do think Barks has been perhaps pre-eminent, I was being slightly
tongue in cheek in my original post. I don't understand the biblical status
bestowed on Barks which is so limiting and means many other excellent
artists, such as Strobl, are not given due recognition. But this is a
discussion which we have already had time & again.
DYER,SONIA (HP-Cupertino,ex1)
Pizen and Wizened
Message 245 -
2002-11-15 at 01:50:30
Rob Klein wrote regarding "wizened":
"Is it possible, then,that the vowel varies from short to long in the
various geographical dialects
of English throughout the World (as does the pronunciation of so many
words)?"
Entirely possible. However, as an American of English descent, I've
only heard the word pronounced with a short i, as in Kriton's assessment.
I've spent time in England and Canada, but can't recall the word ever coming
up, so I don't know how they pronounce it. The only context the term seems
to be used in in American English, is as "a wizened little old man or
woman", meaning a small, old, shrunken person. It wouldn't be used in
referring to, for example, a dried apple. The word wizened doesn't get used
much.
Rob Klein also wrote: "I believe the "Pizen" element only was used to place
an element of "deadliness" in the name -NOT to imply poisened water, or so."
Gary Leach wrote ""Pizen" with a long "i" is in the patois of what is known
in the U.S. as "hillbilly", and he mentions the use of hillbilly patois as
traditionally depicted to be used by the Old Prospector type of character.
As a decendant of hillbillies, and as a resident of the American
West (not far from Calisota, in fact), I can confirm what Gary says. Much
of the American West is desert, and most of the desert has very alkaline
soil. There are many stories from the Gold Rush days and later, of people
from wagon trains, cattle, horses, etc dying after drinking from "pizen
waterholes". These weren't poisoned on purpose - it's just that the water
contained a great deal of alkaline chemicals dissolved from the ground, and
especially at a water hole where much of the water has already evaporated,
can be so concentrated as to actually kill you if you drink it. You
wouldn't know from the taste that it was poisonous. If you were nearly dead
from thirst already, you didn't bother to ask.
Most Old Prospectors (many of whom were from hillbilly stock)
survived because they knew which were the pizen waterholes and which were
the sweet (safe) waterholes, often learning such things from the Indians.
There are a number of places, like Sweetwater Texas, which got their name
from the reference to the safety of their drinking water. On the other
hand, in some cases mining towns and gulches, as well as waterholes and
springs ended up with "Pizen" in their name, in reference to the site's
pizen water. As Gary indicates, no "educated" person would use the word
pizen instead of the actual word poison.
For the usage in the Pizen Bluff story, I always assumed Pizen was
used as a pun or double-entendre, to refer to two different things at the
same time - one being the nearby presence of naturally poisonous water, and
the other being the nearby presence of certain naturally poisonous people.
It definitely implies an element of deadliness and danger for the un-wary in
both interpretations. The word Bluff can also mean two things - a cliff, or
to fool the unwary.
Sonia
"Is it possible, then,that the vowel varies from short to long in the
various geographical dialects
of English throughout the World (as does the pronunciation of so many
words)?"
Entirely possible. However, as an American of English descent, I've
only heard the word pronounced with a short i, as in Kriton's assessment.
I've spent time in England and Canada, but can't recall the word ever coming
up, so I don't know how they pronounce it. The only context the term seems
to be used in in American English, is as "a wizened little old man or
woman", meaning a small, old, shrunken person. It wouldn't be used in
referring to, for example, a dried apple. The word wizened doesn't get used
much.
Rob Klein also wrote: "I believe the "Pizen" element only was used to place
an element of "deadliness" in the name -NOT to imply poisened water, or so."
Gary Leach wrote ""Pizen" with a long "i" is in the patois of what is known
in the U.S. as "hillbilly", and he mentions the use of hillbilly patois as
traditionally depicted to be used by the Old Prospector type of character.
As a decendant of hillbillies, and as a resident of the American
West (not far from Calisota, in fact), I can confirm what Gary says. Much
of the American West is desert, and most of the desert has very alkaline
soil. There are many stories from the Gold Rush days and later, of people
from wagon trains, cattle, horses, etc dying after drinking from "pizen
waterholes". These weren't poisoned on purpose - it's just that the water
contained a great deal of alkaline chemicals dissolved from the ground, and
especially at a water hole where much of the water has already evaporated,
can be so concentrated as to actually kill you if you drink it. You
wouldn't know from the taste that it was poisonous. If you were nearly dead
from thirst already, you didn't bother to ask.
Most Old Prospectors (many of whom were from hillbilly stock)
survived because they knew which were the pizen waterholes and which were
the sweet (safe) waterholes, often learning such things from the Indians.
There are a number of places, like Sweetwater Texas, which got their name
from the reference to the safety of their drinking water. On the other
hand, in some cases mining towns and gulches, as well as waterholes and
springs ended up with "Pizen" in their name, in reference to the site's
pizen water. As Gary indicates, no "educated" person would use the word
pizen instead of the actual word poison.
For the usage in the Pizen Bluff story, I always assumed Pizen was
used as a pun or double-entendre, to refer to two different things at the
same time - one being the nearby presence of naturally poisonous water, and
the other being the nearby presence of certain naturally poisonous people.
It definitely implies an element of deadliness and danger for the un-wary in
both interpretations. The word Bluff can also mean two things - a cliff, or
to fool the unwary.
Sonia
Matteo Sonz
Proto Hidden Mickey?
Message 246 -
2002-11-15 at 01:56:25
Some curious news:
the italian site "Anonima Fumetti - News", an information agency devoted to
comics, reports that in a church in Malta (Austria) there is a late-romanic
fresco depicting what it seems to be a real "Mickey Mouse"! An "Hidden
Mickey" of year 1300?
Take a look at the original article http://derstandard.at/?id=1131746 from
"Der Standard" newspaper.
Really odd!
bye
the italian site "Anonima Fumetti - News", an information agency devoted to
comics, reports that in a church in Malta (Austria) there is a late-romanic
fresco depicting what it seems to be a real "Mickey Mouse"! An "Hidden
Mickey" of year 1300?
Take a look at the original article http://derstandard.at/?id=1131746 from
"Der Standard" newspaper.
Really odd!
bye
Rob Klein
Pizen Bluff, Dutch Ludwig, Strobl
Message 247 -
2002-11-15 at 04:25:06
Oops !!!(oeps!!!) Sorry!!! to Simon, Sonia, Gary and all the others for my lack
of English vocabulary! I have never been exposed to the English verb Wizen (to
wither or shrivel). Actually, I had been exposed to it, but even in context, I
always assumed it meant "to point out", or "to inform". I should have realised
by context, that something was wrong. I had always heard the Dutch
word "wijzen" in Holland, and my Dutch family in Canada (newly arriveed when I
was growing up) always used that word mixed in with their English (as if it
were an English word). Early learning (even if incorrect) makes a strong
impression. Apparently, Michiel made the same mistake.
For Simon: Tony Strobl was my SECOND favourite Duck artist while growing up.
So, I can understand someone choosing him as their favourite. However, I refer
only to his work which was printed from 1947-1958. His work starting in 1959,
became progressively worse, because he needed to crank out as much artwork as
possible, as he was in desparate need of money. Also, the work of later
artists, Daan Jippes, Freddy Milton, Ben Verhagen, Jan Gulbransson (at his
best), and Mau Heymans have now surpassed Strobl in my pantheon. Even so,I
still like his work very much.
For Sonia: Yes, I see now that the "Pizen" was meant to give flavour of the
Old American West, as many of the waterholes were alkaline. The "Bluff" was
just to use a landform that could be identified with desert or steppe areas. It
could also bring the double meaning, adding the element of deceipt/trickery,
but that is of lesser importance. Barks often put two unrelated words together
which provided the feeling of what he wanted.
For Michiel: My newly-Canadian chauvanist cousin changed his name from Klein
to "King". The Irish name "Kline" has NO connection/relation to the Dutch Name
or the English word "little". If I am not mistaken, Kline comes from a Keltic
root word which is not shared by the Germanic languages.
For Harry: I remembered Donald having addressed Ludwig as "Uncle" in Dutch
Disney. Although that is not stating SPECIFICALLY that Ludwig is, indeed,
Donald's legal Uncle by blood or marriage, it does imply that he PROBABLY is
desired to be taken so, by the Dutch Publisher. Ludwig was not an unrelated
family member during Donald's childhood. So, he wouldn't be UNRELATED and yet
called UNCLE by Donald in THAT context. Donald wouldn't call Ludwig "UNCLE" as
an Older man, as he has an official title of "Professor". If he IS unrelated,
Donald would be disrespecting him to call him "Uncle" only because of his age
(and friendly disposition). So, I think we can consider him an actual uncle of
Donald, and great uncle of the nephews. My gut feeling, however, is that he is
more likely to be a more distant relative-a distant cousin. But how interesting
would it be if we all always thought the same way and agreed on everything!
Rob
Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
of English vocabulary! I have never been exposed to the English verb Wizen (to
wither or shrivel). Actually, I had been exposed to it, but even in context, I
always assumed it meant "to point out", or "to inform". I should have realised
by context, that something was wrong. I had always heard the Dutch
word "wijzen" in Holland, and my Dutch family in Canada (newly arriveed when I
was growing up) always used that word mixed in with their English (as if it
were an English word). Early learning (even if incorrect) makes a strong
impression. Apparently, Michiel made the same mistake.
For Simon: Tony Strobl was my SECOND favourite Duck artist while growing up.
So, I can understand someone choosing him as their favourite. However, I refer
only to his work which was printed from 1947-1958. His work starting in 1959,
became progressively worse, because he needed to crank out as much artwork as
possible, as he was in desparate need of money. Also, the work of later
artists, Daan Jippes, Freddy Milton, Ben Verhagen, Jan Gulbransson (at his
best), and Mau Heymans have now surpassed Strobl in my pantheon. Even so,I
still like his work very much.
For Sonia: Yes, I see now that the "Pizen" was meant to give flavour of the
Old American West, as many of the waterholes were alkaline. The "Bluff" was
just to use a landform that could be identified with desert or steppe areas. It
could also bring the double meaning, adding the element of deceipt/trickery,
but that is of lesser importance. Barks often put two unrelated words together
which provided the feeling of what he wanted.
For Michiel: My newly-Canadian chauvanist cousin changed his name from Klein
to "King". The Irish name "Kline" has NO connection/relation to the Dutch Name
or the English word "little". If I am not mistaken, Kline comes from a Keltic
root word which is not shared by the Germanic languages.
For Harry: I remembered Donald having addressed Ludwig as "Uncle" in Dutch
Disney. Although that is not stating SPECIFICALLY that Ludwig is, indeed,
Donald's legal Uncle by blood or marriage, it does imply that he PROBABLY is
desired to be taken so, by the Dutch Publisher. Ludwig was not an unrelated
family member during Donald's childhood. So, he wouldn't be UNRELATED and yet
called UNCLE by Donald in THAT context. Donald wouldn't call Ludwig "UNCLE" as
an Older man, as he has an official title of "Professor". If he IS unrelated,
Donald would be disrespecting him to call him "Uncle" only because of his age
(and friendly disposition). So, I think we can consider him an actual uncle of
Donald, and great uncle of the nephews. My gut feeling, however, is that he is
more likely to be a more distant relative-a distant cousin. But how interesting
would it be if we all always thought the same way and agreed on everything!
Rob
Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
DYER,SONIA (HP-Cupertino,ex1)
French Genealogy story
Message 248 -
2002-11-15 at 05:52:47
Gilles Maurice wrote:
About the story with Ludwig Sonia asked for, i'll scan it and put it online
as soon as I'm going back to my mother's house, probably this week-end...
It's in frenc, so if needed, i'll try to translate it, but maybe it'll take
me some time...
Merci beaucoup Gilles! If you can scan it on line in the original
French that will be perfect for me. I appreciate you doing that very much.
Amicaulment,
Sonia
About the story with Ludwig Sonia asked for, i'll scan it and put it online
as soon as I'm going back to my mother's house, probably this week-end...
It's in frenc, so if needed, i'll try to translate it, but maybe it'll take
me some time...
Merci beaucoup Gilles! If you can scan it on line in the original
French that will be perfect for me. I appreciate you doing that very much.
Amicaulment,
Sonia
Lgiver
Inter-species Romances
Message 249 -
2002-11-15 at 10:29:46
There is the well-known romance of Kermit the Frog with Miss Piggy.
No marriage or off-spring yet! Does Disney now own all the muppets?
Best wishes,
Larry Giver.
No marriage or off-spring yet! Does Disney now own all the muppets?
Best wishes,
Larry Giver.
Sigvald
Reaction to Sigvald, Rob, Kriton, Rich and about Ludwig
Message 250 -
2002-11-15 at 11:38:24
"M.J. Prior" <M.J.Prior at let.rug.nl> wrote:
> Remember that Matilda only was in Barks original tree
> because Barks needed Gladstone to be related to both
> Grandma and $crooge. (Matilda and her husband Goosetave
> fostered Gladstone after his real parents, Daphne and
> Luke, had died from over-eating at a free-lunch picknick.
> I still think that this has happened to Daphne and Goosetave,
Well, Barks actually changed his mind about that. So there
is no reason what-so-ever to still think that.
Sigvald :-)
> Remember that Matilda only was in Barks original tree
> because Barks needed Gladstone to be related to both
> Grandma and $crooge. (Matilda and her husband Goosetave
> fostered Gladstone after his real parents, Daphne and
> Luke, had died from over-eating at a free-lunch picknick.
> I still think that this has happened to Daphne and Goosetave,
Well, Barks actually changed his mind about that. So there
is no reason what-so-ever to still think that.
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald
About family-relations in the Bible
Message 251 -
2002-11-15 at 11:43:10
Vidar Svendsen <vidar-svendsen at c2i.net> wrote:
>
>> Sigvald wrote:
>> a) Disney Comics seldom mentiones marriages. Just like
>> the Bible seldom mentiones daughters, sisters, etc. Or
>> do you really belive that Jakob had 12 sons and NO
>> daughters at all???
>
> ehm.... Jacob *did* have a daughter..... Dina
> the word 'daughter' is used in 229 verses in
> the Bible, sister in 121 verses.
Just for the record - how often are the words "son" and
"brother" mentioned in the same Bible?
Sigvald :-)
>
>> Sigvald wrote:
>> a) Disney Comics seldom mentiones marriages. Just like
>> the Bible seldom mentiones daughters, sisters, etc. Or
>> do you really belive that Jakob had 12 sons and NO
>> daughters at all???
>
> ehm.... Jacob *did* have a daughter..... Dina
> the word 'daughter' is used in 229 verses in
> the Bible, sister in 121 verses.
Just for the record - how often are the words "son" and
"brother" mentioned in the same Bible?
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald
Proto Hidden Mickey?
Message 252 -
2002-11-15 at 11:49:39
"matteo sonz" <minz at ciaoweb.it> wrote:
> Some curious news:
> the italian site "Anonima Fumetti - News", an information
> agency devoted to comics, reports that in a church in Malta
> (Austria)
But Malta is an Island in the Mediteranian?
> there is a late-romanic fresco depicting what it seems
> to be a real "Mickey Mouse"! An "Hidden Mickey" of year 1300?
Very interesting!
> Take a look at the original article:
> http://derstandard.at/?id=1131746
> from "Der Standard" newspaper.
> Really odd!
Can any of our German friends here please translate that
article into English so that averyone here at DCML can
read it?
Sigvald :-)
> Some curious news:
> the italian site "Anonima Fumetti - News", an information
> agency devoted to comics, reports that in a church in Malta
> (Austria)
But Malta is an Island in the Mediteranian?
> there is a late-romanic fresco depicting what it seems
> to be a real "Mickey Mouse"! An "Hidden Mickey" of year 1300?
Very interesting!
> Take a look at the original article:
> http://derstandard.at/?id=1131746
> from "Der Standard" newspaper.
> Really odd!
Can any of our German friends here please translate that
article into English so that averyone here at DCML can
read it?
Sigvald :-)
Vic Pratt
Flat Earth
Message 253 -
2002-11-15 at 11:52:21
Hello chums
Now, what's all this nonsense about the earth being
round? I never heard anything so ridiculous. You'll be
telling me next that Ducks don't wear sailor suits.
Best wishes
VIC
=====
A FINE ELECTRONIC PORTMANTEAU OF COMICS AND CURIOSITIES AT:
http://come.to/thefleacircus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Now, what's all this nonsense about the earth being
round? I never heard anything so ridiculous. You'll be
telling me next that Ducks don't wear sailor suits.
Best wishes
VIC
=====
A FINE ELECTRONIC PORTMANTEAU OF COMICS AND CURIOSITIES AT:
http://come.to/thefleacircus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Anders Christian Siveb¾k
Danish Donaldist Society
Message 254 -
2002-11-15 at 12:12:48
Hi all
In Denmark we have several cozy family magazines which are published every
week.
In these you find articles, short stories, crosswords Tv-prgrames and
such.
One of them, Familie Journalen, publishes an article on the danish
Donaldist Society on
monday. I just got my own copy - it's a very nice article.
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
In Denmark we have several cozy family magazines which are published every
week.
In these you find articles, short stories, crosswords Tv-prgrames and
such.
One of them, Familie Journalen, publishes an article on the danish
Donaldist Society on
monday. I just got my own copy - it's a very nice article.
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
Joakim.Gunnarsson
Disney Italy and creators' dispute
Message 255 -
2002-11-15 at 13:14:20
>>>From Anonima Fumetti news:
> "The Disney Italia refused to talk with the official representatives
> (SILF/SLC/CGIL) of the Italian creators of the Mickey Mouse and
> Donald Duck stories. >>>
>
This is very interesting.
Please, if any italians on this list can keep us updated on the
situation
as things happends that would be very appreciated.
Especially as many of us doesn't understand Italian.
Thanks!
/Joakim Gunnarsson.
> "The Disney Italia refused to talk with the official representatives
> (SILF/SLC/CGIL) of the Italian creators of the Mickey Mouse and
> Donald Duck stories. >>>
>
This is very interesting.
Please, if any italians on this list can keep us updated on the
situation
as things happends that would be very appreciated.
Especially as many of us doesn't understand Italian.
Thanks!
/Joakim Gunnarsson.