MICHIEL:
> > incorrectly associating the word "wizened" with the word "wise".
>
> But there must be an etymological connection, mustn't there? The
> pronunciation may not be the same (alright: *isn't* the same) but
> associating the two is maybe not such a mistake after all. "Wizard" also
> has a short vowel.
Here's what the Merriam-Webster dictionary has to say on the etymology of
these words:
Wise: Middle English, from Old English wIse; akin to Old High German wIsa
manner, Greek eidos form, idein to see
Wizard: Middle English wysard, from wis, wys wise
Wizen: Etymology: Middle English wisenen, from Old English wisnian; akin to
Old High German wesanEn to wither, Lithuanian vysti
Thus, it would seem that although "wizard" and "wise" are related,
"wizen" if from a completely different root.
> Ask Harry. No, the other one. (uh-huh, saw-ree)
What would he know? He still has three years of studies left... ;-)
Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Of course I'm paranoid--everyone's trying to kill me."
-----
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Author
Topic: 200211
(577 messages)
Kriton Kyrimis
Wise wizened wizards
Message 256 -
2002-11-15 at 14:03:16
Kriton Kyrimis
Wizened
Message 257 -
2002-11-15 at 14:09:56
SIMON:
> Back on topic, does anyone else agree with me that the best duck artist
> ever was Tony Strobl? (horror, what a blasphemy!)
The way you put it, it would appear that not even you agree with this claim!
It may sound harsh, but, to me, calling Strobl the *other* good artist
doesn't say much about American Disney artists other than Barks! Of
course, what I mainly notice in duck stories is the plot, and the material
with which Strobl had to work was nowhere near on a par with Barks.
Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Selective retribution will bring any dissident to heel."
-----
> Back on topic, does anyone else agree with me that the best duck artist
> ever was Tony Strobl? (horror, what a blasphemy!)
The way you put it, it would appear that not even you agree with this claim!
It may sound harsh, but, to me, calling Strobl the *other* good artist
doesn't say much about American Disney artists other than Barks! Of
course, what I mainly notice in duck stories is the plot, and the material
with which Strobl had to work was nowhere near on a par with Barks.
Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis)
-----
"Selective retribution will bring any dissident to heel."
-----
M.J. Prior
Wizened (OT)
Message 258 -
2002-11-15 at 14:10:56
Kriton:
> incorrectly associating the word "wizened" with the word "wise".
me> But there must be an etymological connection, mustn't there?
me> associating the two is maybe not such a mistake after all.
"Wizened" means someting like "dried out and wrinkled" and has thus
nothing to do with "wise". I should have looked it up (which I just did).
It's a word you can easily read over without looking it up in a dictionary,
as it is mostly used as an epitheton for old men. If incorrect, my wrong
assumption is at least understandable. Sorry for that.
Michiel Prior.
> incorrectly associating the word "wizened" with the word "wise".
me> But there must be an etymological connection, mustn't there?
me> associating the two is maybe not such a mistake after all.
"Wizened" means someting like "dried out and wrinkled" and has thus
nothing to do with "wise". I should have looked it up (which I just did).
It's a word you can easily read over without looking it up in a dictionary,
as it is mostly used as an epitheton for old men. If incorrect, my wrong
assumption is at least understandable. Sorry for that.
Michiel Prior.
Sdebeer
Harry's site
Message 259 -
2002-11-15 at 14:16:10
I clicked on the link to harry's site given in M.J. Prior's DCML message but was informed that I am not authorised entry. Do I need to register somewhere to use this site?
Simon de Beer
--------------------
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com
Simon de Beer
--------------------
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com
Donald D. Markstein
More inter-species romance
Message 260 -
2002-11-15 at 14:52:17
In "The Old Castle's Secret", Scotty, the caretaker, is related to the
McDucks -- and he's a dog-face!
I don't understand why anybody has a problem with Gyro being related to
Ducks.
Quack, Don
Today in Toons: Every day's an anniversary.
http://www.toonopedia.com/today.htm
McDucks -- and he's a dog-face!
I don't understand why anybody has a problem with Gyro being related to
Ducks.
Quack, Don
Today in Toons: Every day's an anniversary.
http://www.toonopedia.com/today.htm
M.J. Prior
Reaction to Rob and Sigvald
Message 261 -
2002-11-15 at 15:00:36
Rob Klein:
> I always assumed it meant "to point out", or "to inform".
> I had always heard the Dutch word "wijzen" in Holland
> Apparently, Michiel made the same mistake.
No, I made a different mistake. I assumed that "wizened" meant "grown
wise after much life experience", because it's mostly used as an epitheton
for little old men.
Sigvald:
>> died from over-eating at a free-lunch picknick.
>> I still think that this has happened to Daphne and Goosetave,
> Well, Barks actually changed his mind about that. So there is no
> reason what-so-ever to still think that.
Well, I still think it's a nice story. Dying from over-eating at a free-lunch
picknick is a very likely thing to have happened to Gladstone's parents,
assuming they must have had about the same character as Gladstone
(who manages to get everything for free, due to his good luck).
The story fits in well, and it isn't countered by any other story.
I think fondness of the story is a very good 'reason whatsoever to still
think it'.
(Note that story here doesn't necessarily mean that it ever acquired a
comic form. There is no Barks-story in which it's mentioned, is there?)
Michiel Prior.
> I always assumed it meant "to point out", or "to inform".
> I had always heard the Dutch word "wijzen" in Holland
> Apparently, Michiel made the same mistake.
No, I made a different mistake. I assumed that "wizened" meant "grown
wise after much life experience", because it's mostly used as an epitheton
for little old men.
Sigvald:
>> died from over-eating at a free-lunch picknick.
>> I still think that this has happened to Daphne and Goosetave,
> Well, Barks actually changed his mind about that. So there is no
> reason what-so-ever to still think that.
Well, I still think it's a nice story. Dying from over-eating at a free-lunch
picknick is a very likely thing to have happened to Gladstone's parents,
assuming they must have had about the same character as Gladstone
(who manages to get everything for free, due to his good luck).
The story fits in well, and it isn't countered by any other story.
I think fondness of the story is a very good 'reason whatsoever to still
think it'.
(Note that story here doesn't necessarily mean that it ever acquired a
comic form. There is no Barks-story in which it's mentioned, is there?)
Michiel Prior.
M.J. Prior
Ludwig and Matilda shown together
Message 262 -
2002-11-15 at 15:19:39
Hi y'all!
I just realised there *is* at least one comic in wich Ludwig can be
seen sitting next to Matilda! It's fan art by Katie Sullivan and I like it!
http://www.sullivanet.com/duckburg/myart/webbedbliss/index.htm
(Look at page 13.)
Katie seems to be a very dedicated Don Rosa-fan, so I think this
can't be seen as an 'independent source'.
Michiel Prior.
I just realised there *is* at least one comic in wich Ludwig can be
seen sitting next to Matilda! It's fan art by Katie Sullivan and I like it!
http://www.sullivanet.com/duckburg/myart/webbedbliss/index.htm
(Look at page 13.)
Katie seems to be a very dedicated Don Rosa-fan, so I think this
can't be seen as an 'independent source'.
Michiel Prior.
H.W.Fluks
Harry's site
Message 263 -
2002-11-15 at 15:41:56
Simon:
> I clicked on the link to harry's site given in M.J. Prior's
> DCML message but was informed that I am not authorised entry.
> Do I need to register somewhere to use this site?
Michiel quoted an HTML message in plain text as follows:
> {HYPERLINK
"http://dd50.inducks.org/xeng1963.html"}http://dd50.inducks.org/xeng1963.htm
l
I think this in misinterpreted by most mail programs (it is by mine). The
correct address is:
http://dd50.inducks.org/xeng1963.html
No autorisation needed!
--Harry.
> I clicked on the link to harry's site given in M.J. Prior's
> DCML message but was informed that I am not authorised entry.
> Do I need to register somewhere to use this site?
Michiel quoted an HTML message in plain text as follows:
> {HYPERLINK
"http://dd50.inducks.org/xeng1963.html"}http://dd50.inducks.org/xeng1963.htm
l
I think this in misinterpreted by most mail programs (it is by mine). The
correct address is:
http://dd50.inducks.org/xeng1963.html
No autorisation needed!
--Harry.
H.W.Fluks
Proto Hidden Mickey?
Message 264 -
2002-11-15 at 15:57:08
Matteo wrote:
> A "Hidden Mickey" of year 1300?
> Take a look at the original article
> http://derstandard.at/?id=11Matteo31746 from
> "Der Standard" newspaper.
I found a Dutch article, which I think is short enough to quote here (for
those who can read Dutch but not German - I know at least 2 DCML members
like that 8-):
http://www.zonnet.nl/zon/0,1086,site_id-22-menu_id-751-record_id-380114-src_
id-,00.html
WENEN (ANP) - Mickey Mouse bestaat al veel langer dan wij denken. In de
Oostenrijkse provincie Karinthi? is bij restauratiewerkzaamheden aan de
buitenmuur van een kerk een muurschildering gevonden met een sterk op de
stripfiguur van Walt Disney gelijkende muis.
De schildering, een fresco, is naar schatting zevenhonderd jaar oud. Het
fresco, dat rond 1300 is vervaardigd, heeft de Heilige Christoffel als
onderwerp. Hij wordt vaak omgeven door fabelfiguren, vertelde conservator
Eduard Mahlknecht van het diocees Gurk-Klagenfurt. ,,Vissen, kwallen,
zeepaardjes en in dit geval een figuur die op Mickey Mouse lijkt.''
Mahlknecht zei niet met zekerheid te kunnen zeggen of de frescoschilder
bedoeld heeft een muis te schilderen. ,,Het zou ook een vereenvoudigde wezel
of bever kunnen zijn.''
De burgemeester van het dorp Malta, waarin de kerk staat, vindt de
ontdekking erg grappig. ,,Misschien kunnen we een jumelage aangaan met
Hollywood.''
--Harry.
> A "Hidden Mickey" of year 1300?
> Take a look at the original article
> http://derstandard.at/?id=11Matteo31746 from
> "Der Standard" newspaper.
I found a Dutch article, which I think is short enough to quote here (for
those who can read Dutch but not German - I know at least 2 DCML members
like that 8-):
http://www.zonnet.nl/zon/0,1086,site_id-22-menu_id-751-record_id-380114-src_
id-,00.html
WENEN (ANP) - Mickey Mouse bestaat al veel langer dan wij denken. In de
Oostenrijkse provincie Karinthi? is bij restauratiewerkzaamheden aan de
buitenmuur van een kerk een muurschildering gevonden met een sterk op de
stripfiguur van Walt Disney gelijkende muis.
De schildering, een fresco, is naar schatting zevenhonderd jaar oud. Het
fresco, dat rond 1300 is vervaardigd, heeft de Heilige Christoffel als
onderwerp. Hij wordt vaak omgeven door fabelfiguren, vertelde conservator
Eduard Mahlknecht van het diocees Gurk-Klagenfurt. ,,Vissen, kwallen,
zeepaardjes en in dit geval een figuur die op Mickey Mouse lijkt.''
Mahlknecht zei niet met zekerheid te kunnen zeggen of de frescoschilder
bedoeld heeft een muis te schilderen. ,,Het zou ook een vereenvoudigde wezel
of bever kunnen zijn.''
De burgemeester van het dorp Malta, waarin de kerk staat, vindt de
ontdekking erg grappig. ,,Misschien kunnen we een jumelage aangaan met
Hollywood.''
--Harry.
Sigvald
More inter-species romance
Message 265 -
2002-11-15 at 16:00:54
"Donald D. Markstein" <ddmarkstein at cox.net> wrote:
>
> In "The Old Castle's Secret", Scotty, the caretaker,
> is related to the McDucks
Where have Carl Barks or Don Rosa (they are the ones
who has written the most known stuff about Scotty)
mentined such a relationship?
Sigvald :-)
>
> In "The Old Castle's Secret", Scotty, the caretaker,
> is related to the McDucks
Where have Carl Barks or Don Rosa (they are the ones
who has written the most known stuff about Scotty)
mentined such a relationship?
Sigvald :-)
H.W.Fluks
OT Wise wizened wizards
Message 266 -
2002-11-15 at 16:39:46
Kriton wrote:
> Wise: Middle English, from Old English wIse; akin to Old High
> German wIsa manner, Greek eidos form, idein to see
Interesting: the words "idea", "vision" and "wise" all come from the same
source.
Interesting, but off-topic.
--Harry.
(Who finds ethymology interesting)
> Wise: Middle English, from Old English wIse; akin to Old High
> German wIsa manner, Greek eidos form, idein to see
Interesting: the words "idea", "vision" and "wise" all come from the same
source.
Interesting, but off-topic.
--Harry.
(Who finds ethymology interesting)
H.W.Fluks
Strobl and Gregory
Message 267 -
2002-11-15 at 16:44:37
Kriton write:
> what I mainly notice in duck stories is the plot, and
> the material
> with which Strobl had to work was nowhere near on a par with Barks.
Except when the writer was Bob Gregory! He's my favourite non-Barks pre-1965
American writer. Most of his good stories were drawn by Strobl or Barks.
It's a shame that he also drew his own stories in later years...
--Harry.
("The Golden Gate bridge in Venice?" "Why not?")
> what I mainly notice in duck stories is the plot, and
> the material
> with which Strobl had to work was nowhere near on a par with Barks.
Except when the writer was Bob Gregory! He's my favourite non-Barks pre-1965
American writer. Most of his good stories were drawn by Strobl or Barks.
It's a shame that he also drew his own stories in later years...
--Harry.
("The Golden Gate bridge in Venice?" "Why not?")
Kai Saarto
About Gladstone´s parents
Message 268 -
2002-11-15 at 18:04:40
M.J. Prior wrote:
> Well, I still think it's a nice story. Dying from over-eating at a free-lunch
> picknick is a very likely thing to have happened to Gladstone's parents,
> assuming they must have had about the same character as Gladstone
> (who manages to get everything for free, due to his good luck).
> The story fits in well, and it isn't countered by any other story.
> I think fondness of the story is a very good 'reason whatsoever to still
> think it'.
It would nice if someone would do a story about how this has affected
Gladstone. He seems trying to avoid using his luck to get too much. For
example in Barks' "A Financial Fable" he uses his luck only slightly
because doesn't want to bother for money. Maybe the terrible fate of his
parents has taught him not to overdo it...
Gladstone as a tragic figure. That would be cool. Something like $crooge
and Goldie.
--
- Kai Saarto
http://www.perunamaa.net/donrosa
> Well, I still think it's a nice story. Dying from over-eating at a free-lunch
> picknick is a very likely thing to have happened to Gladstone's parents,
> assuming they must have had about the same character as Gladstone
> (who manages to get everything for free, due to his good luck).
> The story fits in well, and it isn't countered by any other story.
> I think fondness of the story is a very good 'reason whatsoever to still
> think it'.
It would nice if someone would do a story about how this has affected
Gladstone. He seems trying to avoid using his luck to get too much. For
example in Barks' "A Financial Fable" he uses his luck only slightly
because doesn't want to bother for money. Maybe the terrible fate of his
parents has taught him not to overdo it...
Gladstone as a tragic figure. That would be cool. Something like $crooge
and Goldie.
--
- Kai Saarto
http://www.perunamaa.net/donrosa
Kai Saarto
Proto Hidden Mickey?
Message 269 -
2002-11-15 at 18:13:05
Matteo wrote:
>
>
>A "Hidden Mickey" of year 1300?
>Take a look at the original article
>http://derstandard.at/?id=11Matteo31746 from
>"Der Standard" newspaper.
Interesting. There?s a church from the same period in my hometown. Maybe
I?ll find a D.U.C.K. dedication if I look really hard... :-)
--
- Kai Saarto
http://www.perunamaa.net/donrosa
>
>
>A "Hidden Mickey" of year 1300?
>Take a look at the original article
>http://derstandard.at/?id=11Matteo31746 from
>"Der Standard" newspaper.
Interesting. There?s a church from the same period in my hometown. Maybe
I?ll find a D.U.C.K. dedication if I look really hard... :-)
--
- Kai Saarto
http://www.perunamaa.net/donrosa
Martin Olsen
OT:"wizened" and "wise"
Message 270 -
2002-11-15 at 18:35:57
Michiel Prior wrote:
> Kriton:
> > incorrectly associating the word "wizened" with the word "wise".
>
> But there must be an etymological connection, mustn't there? The
> pronunciation may not be the same (alright: *isn't* the same) but
> associating the two is maybe not such a mistake after all. "Wizard" also
> has a short vowel. Ask Harry. No, the other one. (uh-huh, saw-ree)
There is no etymological connection between the words "wizened" and "wise" according to my Concise Oxford Dictionary, which confirms the pronunciation of "wizened" with a short "i". There are two alternative forms of this word listed: "wizen" and "weazen", and the latter form should be pronounced with a long vowel, I believe.
"wizened" comes from Old English "wisnian" which is the same word as Old Norse "visna" which lives in modern Danish as "vissen". The modern Danish word, which is also pronounced with a short "i" is used about dried up plants, leaves etc., and I believe this is the literal meaning of the word.
"wise" is in fact two different words. As an adjective it comes from Old English "wis" with the Old Norse counterpart "viss". As a noun, it comes from Old English "wise" with the Old Norse counterpart "visa". The Danish language has the same word as the adjective "vis", which used to be spelled "viis" which indicates the long "i". We also have the noun "vis" which is also pronounced with a long "i". These words have the same basic meaning as the English counterparts.
Rob Klein wrote:
> I have never been exposed to the English verb Wizen (to
> wither or shrivel).
My Concise Oxford Dictionary (5th ed., 1969 printing) does not even list the verb "wizen", only the adjective "wizened". However, my Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd ed., 1950 printing) lists the verb as well as the adjective. The fact that the verb is left out of the concise dictionary suggests that it is not widely used.
Martin.
> Kriton:
> > incorrectly associating the word "wizened" with the word "wise".
>
> But there must be an etymological connection, mustn't there? The
> pronunciation may not be the same (alright: *isn't* the same) but
> associating the two is maybe not such a mistake after all. "Wizard" also
> has a short vowel. Ask Harry. No, the other one. (uh-huh, saw-ree)
There is no etymological connection between the words "wizened" and "wise" according to my Concise Oxford Dictionary, which confirms the pronunciation of "wizened" with a short "i". There are two alternative forms of this word listed: "wizen" and "weazen", and the latter form should be pronounced with a long vowel, I believe.
"wizened" comes from Old English "wisnian" which is the same word as Old Norse "visna" which lives in modern Danish as "vissen". The modern Danish word, which is also pronounced with a short "i" is used about dried up plants, leaves etc., and I believe this is the literal meaning of the word.
"wise" is in fact two different words. As an adjective it comes from Old English "wis" with the Old Norse counterpart "viss". As a noun, it comes from Old English "wise" with the Old Norse counterpart "visa". The Danish language has the same word as the adjective "vis", which used to be spelled "viis" which indicates the long "i". We also have the noun "vis" which is also pronounced with a long "i". These words have the same basic meaning as the English counterparts.
Rob Klein wrote:
> I have never been exposed to the English verb Wizen (to
> wither or shrivel).
My Concise Oxford Dictionary (5th ed., 1969 printing) does not even list the verb "wizen", only the adjective "wizened". However, my Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (3rd ed., 1950 printing) lists the verb as well as the adjective. The fact that the verb is left out of the concise dictionary suggests that it is not widely used.
Martin.