GILLES MAURICE, 03-08-2003:
> http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/I+AT++299-B
> In it, we meet Scrooge's grandpa "Wasteful" McDuck (we all know that
> Scrooge already has a coal miner grandpa, Dingus/Titus McDuck, [...]
"We all know"? No, we don't. (At least, *I* don't.)
> PS: I hope this constant demand of original names and scans don't
> bother too much people here, I hope a lot of people here is
> interrested in the Ducks' genealogy and in my tree, but please tell
> me if it annoys you...
Has somebody complained, then?
Your subject is on-topic, so I don't see what the problem would be.
Personally, the subject of family trees doesn't interest me much, but
I think you should keep on writing about it. It gives variety to DCML.
--- Dani?l
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Author
Topic: 200308
(787 messages)
Daniel Van Eijmeren
Wasteful McDuck
Message 16 -
2003-08-04 at 08:01:29
Ola Martinsson
Versions of the FCBD DDA
Message 17 -
2003-08-04 at 14:02:59
Gary Leach has informed us about that there are/is to be in all six
versions of Maharadja Donald. Is there pictures of these on some webpage
or does anyone of you have scans of them ?
Ola in a sunny Stockholm +25
versions of Maharadja Donald. Is there pictures of these on some webpage
or does anyone of you have scans of them ?
Ola in a sunny Stockholm +25
Ola Martinsson
Versions of the FCBD DDA
Message 18 -
2003-08-04 at 14:26:55
Gary Leach has informed us about that there are/is to be in all six
versions of Maharadja Donald. Is there pictures of these on some webpage
or does anyone of you have scans of them ?
Ola in a sunny Stockholm +25
versions of Maharadja Donald. Is there pictures of these on some webpage
or does anyone of you have scans of them ?
Ola in a sunny Stockholm +25
H.W.Fluks
Anders to Daniel about Rosa and Barks in the Netherlands
Message 19 -
2003-08-04 at 18:15:10
Anders wrote:
> i would like to meet them so we could clear up this
> long-time misunderstandment, as it probably is.
I don't see how a meeting would clear up any "misunderstandment".
You make it sound like it's something between the Dutch editors and you personally, which only a personal meeting can solve. (And after such a meeting, the Dutch will do as you please?)
> There's nothing much wrong with
> the extra, when you look at it as itself (heck, ours is even worse!)
>
> But when one can compare it looks strange to see a nice magazine -
> but with covers made by another atist, or maybe just traced by
> another artist.
FYI: many of the covers are drawn by Michel Nadorp, one of the best currently active cover artists in the world.
The word "traced" does not give justice to the quality of the covers (maybe with one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
> The story inside is printed in one part - but
> the version
> that is meant for publishing in several issues is printed.
> Those two things are the only things I see wrong with the
> printing of Rosa
> in the extra - it's not much, but it's there.
> But all that doesn't mean that the editors can't be big Rosa-fans -
> I wouldn't know, I have no contact with them.
But you *do* mention elsewhere that they are *not* big Rosa-fans.
You can't know that either, since you have no contact with them.
The Dutch editors are a bunch of individuals; every individual having his own opinions and tastes.
There are some freelance artists who expressed their dislike of Rosa's artwork in public (Janssens, Heymans).
There are others who think the artwork is OK, but too different from the "mainstream" Disney style.
And there are others who like Rosa's artwork.
95 per cent of the Dutch editors (and writers and artists) that I have met *do* like Rosa's story-telling a lot.
And one more thing: the Dutch editors don't treat any writer or artist different from another. Rosa is a good writer. And (for instance) Korhonen is a good writer. There's no reason to treat Rosa's work differently from Korhonen's.
> > They redraw Barks's covers.
> > Maybe this means they're not much of a Barks fan, either?
> I again can't know about that before I meat them.
8-)
You "meat" them would mean you "make meat out of them"...
> But you dutch people have told me before they have this tradition of
> redrawng
> covers and other things - Only the first couple of albums with
> barks-stories had Barks-
> covers in Netherland, then it was stopped - Why is that?
Only the first BESTE VERHALEN album had a cover that was made out of Barks artwork. All others have covers by Jippes and (a few) Nadorp.
The reason for that (as I've been told by the editors) is that the Barks covers are not good enough! Barks was a great writer and story artist, but not a great cover artist. So even if they use a Barks cover, they re-ink it to make it look better.
After all, the cover of a comic book (or album) is the first thing a buyer looks at. So it better be good.
And personally, I agree. Jippes has made some outstanding comic book covers. I'd even suggest that part of the success of Gladstone's first comic book run (1986-1989) was due to the many excellent Jippes covers!
> There sure isn't anything more in my criticism than the fact that
> *I* think they could put a little more effort into some of
> these things.
Yes, I have the feeling you're blaming them for being very good, but not perfect.
--Harry.
> i would like to meet them so we could clear up this
> long-time misunderstandment, as it probably is.
I don't see how a meeting would clear up any "misunderstandment".
You make it sound like it's something between the Dutch editors and you personally, which only a personal meeting can solve. (And after such a meeting, the Dutch will do as you please?)
> There's nothing much wrong with
> the extra, when you look at it as itself (heck, ours is even worse!)
>
> But when one can compare it looks strange to see a nice magazine -
> but with covers made by another atist, or maybe just traced by
> another artist.
FYI: many of the covers are drawn by Michel Nadorp, one of the best currently active cover artists in the world.
The word "traced" does not give justice to the quality of the covers (maybe with one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
> The story inside is printed in one part - but
> the version
> that is meant for publishing in several issues is printed.
> Those two things are the only things I see wrong with the
> printing of Rosa
> in the extra - it's not much, but it's there.
> But all that doesn't mean that the editors can't be big Rosa-fans -
> I wouldn't know, I have no contact with them.
But you *do* mention elsewhere that they are *not* big Rosa-fans.
You can't know that either, since you have no contact with them.
The Dutch editors are a bunch of individuals; every individual having his own opinions and tastes.
There are some freelance artists who expressed their dislike of Rosa's artwork in public (Janssens, Heymans).
There are others who think the artwork is OK, but too different from the "mainstream" Disney style.
And there are others who like Rosa's artwork.
95 per cent of the Dutch editors (and writers and artists) that I have met *do* like Rosa's story-telling a lot.
And one more thing: the Dutch editors don't treat any writer or artist different from another. Rosa is a good writer. And (for instance) Korhonen is a good writer. There's no reason to treat Rosa's work differently from Korhonen's.
> > They redraw Barks's covers.
> > Maybe this means they're not much of a Barks fan, either?
> I again can't know about that before I meat them.
8-)
You "meat" them would mean you "make meat out of them"...
> But you dutch people have told me before they have this tradition of
> redrawng
> covers and other things - Only the first couple of albums with
> barks-stories had Barks-
> covers in Netherland, then it was stopped - Why is that?
Only the first BESTE VERHALEN album had a cover that was made out of Barks artwork. All others have covers by Jippes and (a few) Nadorp.
The reason for that (as I've been told by the editors) is that the Barks covers are not good enough! Barks was a great writer and story artist, but not a great cover artist. So even if they use a Barks cover, they re-ink it to make it look better.
After all, the cover of a comic book (or album) is the first thing a buyer looks at. So it better be good.
And personally, I agree. Jippes has made some outstanding comic book covers. I'd even suggest that part of the success of Gladstone's first comic book run (1986-1989) was due to the many excellent Jippes covers!
> There sure isn't anything more in my criticism than the fact that
> *I* think they could put a little more effort into some of
> these things.
Yes, I have the feeling you're blaming them for being very good, but not perfect.
--Harry.
H.W.Fluks
Extra DD Extra in the Netherlands
Message 20 -
2003-08-04 at 18:28:31
Michiel wrote (on July 21st):
> > extra Donald Duck Extra 7 1/2
> > D 2002-033 - 26 pages - US - Dream of a Lifetime (Rosa)
Interesting detail: every time Scrooge sees Donald in his dream, he says the same words ("asjemenou").
These kind of things could easily have gone wrong when a careless translator would have done the job.
> Notice that the Dutch editors utterly failed to comprehend
> Don's 'fool-proof system' and published the extra
> recap-page
> as well. Well, maybe we should regard it as a BONUS-page.
> :)
Personally, I'm happy they used the page. I'm a Rosa completist...
> >H 9879 - 1 page - DD - special place for smokers in
> >restaurant (Milton?)
>
> It doesn't look like Milton to me. Could this gag've been
> drawn by ROB KLEIN? (The artwork even looks a bit
> Strobl-ish.)
This is Sander Gulien. A young artist who still hasn't quite found his own style yet. This explains why his artworks resembles Milton and Strobl (and Jippes and others) on places.
> > D 2001-135 - 14 pages - DD - potion that weakens enemies
> This is certainly a Rota story. (Andold 'Wild Duck') Is
> Andold
> really a SCOTTISH warrior? The pirates in this story look
> much more Scottish (wearing kilts).
Andold is Scottish (Caledonian) alright. The modern-time Donald doesn't wear trousers, so it can be expected that a Scottish Donald doesn't wear a kilt... 8-)
> > RPDD 2503 - 1 page - US - greengrocer is an old classmate
>
> This must be Toby Strobl.
A funny gag from my youth; US 36 (in Holland in DD1970-09). I have no idea what the weird code "RPDD 2503" is supposed to mean.
--Harry.
http://bolderbast.inducks.org
> > extra Donald Duck Extra 7 1/2
> > D 2002-033 - 26 pages - US - Dream of a Lifetime (Rosa)
Interesting detail: every time Scrooge sees Donald in his dream, he says the same words ("asjemenou").
These kind of things could easily have gone wrong when a careless translator would have done the job.
> Notice that the Dutch editors utterly failed to comprehend
> Don's 'fool-proof system' and published the extra
> recap-page
> as well. Well, maybe we should regard it as a BONUS-page.
> :)
Personally, I'm happy they used the page. I'm a Rosa completist...
> >H 9879 - 1 page - DD - special place for smokers in
> >restaurant (Milton?)
>
> It doesn't look like Milton to me. Could this gag've been
> drawn by ROB KLEIN? (The artwork even looks a bit
> Strobl-ish.)
This is Sander Gulien. A young artist who still hasn't quite found his own style yet. This explains why his artworks resembles Milton and Strobl (and Jippes and others) on places.
> > D 2001-135 - 14 pages - DD - potion that weakens enemies
> This is certainly a Rota story. (Andold 'Wild Duck') Is
> Andold
> really a SCOTTISH warrior? The pirates in this story look
> much more Scottish (wearing kilts).
Andold is Scottish (Caledonian) alright. The modern-time Donald doesn't wear trousers, so it can be expected that a Scottish Donald doesn't wear a kilt... 8-)
> > RPDD 2503 - 1 page - US - greengrocer is an old classmate
>
> This must be Toby Strobl.
A funny gag from my youth; US 36 (in Holland in DD1970-09). I have no idea what the weird code "RPDD 2503" is supposed to mean.
--Harry.
http://bolderbast.inducks.org
Søren Krarup Olesen
Inducks.org - new IP
Message 21 -
2003-08-04 at 19:00:05
Dear all,
Due to changes on my provider's side I have to change IP. This will affect *everything*
under inducks.org *except* for our search page http://coa.inducks.org
The new temporary IP is:
62.107.110.224
so if you e.g. wish to view the bolderbast site, it will be placed at
http://62.107.110.224/bolderbast
Same goes for IRC connections, they should be addressed to
Server: 62.107.110.224, Port: 6667
Once I get a static address, I will notice you. Sorry for the trouble...
Best,
S?ren
Due to changes on my provider's side I have to change IP. This will affect *everything*
under inducks.org *except* for our search page http://coa.inducks.org
The new temporary IP is:
62.107.110.224
so if you e.g. wish to view the bolderbast site, it will be placed at
http://62.107.110.224/bolderbast
Same goes for IRC connections, they should be addressed to
Server: 62.107.110.224, Port: 6667
Once I get a static address, I will notice you. Sorry for the trouble...
Best,
S?ren
Anders Christian Sivebæk
Rosa in Holland - answer to daniel
Message 22 -
2003-08-04 at 21:13:17
Hi
>
>Daniel van Eijmeren
>
>>> I repeat that - i would like to meet them [the Dutch editors]
>>> so we could clear up this long-time misunderstandment, as it
>>> probably is.
>
>Okay. I'm curious what they will say. (Do you mean you have plans to
>travel to The Netherlands on the short term?)
No, not any firm plans.
But hoping that this discussion stays what i intended it to be -
afriendly discussion - I hope it's not totally impossible to some
time drive to the netherlands and perhaps visit the ducth fans i know here
from dcml.
>
>I think the multi-part versions are used because they are already
>coloured when the Dutch editors buy them as story material from Egmont.
Aha - I understand that!
>
>I've heard that the extra pages are used to give Rosa's stories some
>moments of rest and recapitulation.
I wouldn't disagree on that.
Me:
>
>> Does this make the whole thing better, if I may so ask?
Daniel:
>
>No, but my point was that the Dutch editor isn't intentionally ignorant
>towards Don Rosa's stories, as has for a long time been suggested here
>on DCML. It's rather the opposite situation, because Don Rosa's stories
>are faithfully published in albums, contrary to most other artists.
I see your point. You are right. Many artists, who really do deserve it,
don't get their stories published in albums, extras and so on.
>
>> Rosa is, maybe to say the most perhaps the heir - an apprentice who
>> didn't meet the "wizard" untill 1998. -
>What do you mean to say with this?
Notice my "to say the most" - to say the least, Don is a cartoonist like
many others.
My personal favorite would still be barks, Rosa is on a close second. To
*me*
> "Don Rosa is the son of god, his only
>son, and no one else will guide
>you to comic book heaven", or something
>like that?
I certainly did not mean to say that, nor do I think it myself. I see Rosa
as my own
favorite, of the people still drawing stories. His way to tell duck
stories is the one I like.
>I don't want to step into such a discussion. And why would you?
I don't want to start that, no. I did not mean to do that when i replied
to the mail another
dutch send. I only wanted to reply, but i maybe went too far.
Actually i would like to meet the publishers, not to eat them, as Harry
jokingly asked,
but to talk - I've had giving talks with the editors from komix and from
Anders And.
>
>There are many, MANY "Barks heirs" who write great stories and draw great
>There are many, MANY "Barks heirs" who write great stories and draw great
>art.
I do agree - sorry to not expressing the agreement more. I do like most of
the stories done
by these heirs, who honnor Barks, use his and others' charecters.
>
>> Barks is, in the yes of many the big master - and they treat the
>> versions of his stories with the same care? Is it impossible to find
>> the original prints, so they could reconstruct what deisappered under
>> resume-boxes or put in again the pages that are gone? The italian
>> publishers does this - so why can't the dutch.
>And why can't anyone else?
Erm, I got lost in our conversation here. Do you imply that i imply that
the italians
are the only ones who do it right? Or should i just stop thinking...
Translators:
>
>I think the Dutch translations of Barks's stories are rather good.
>They not nescessarily 100% accurate to the original words, though.
>Sometimes the Dutch translations are different because of artistic
>reasons (making them more understandable, recognizable, or funnier,
>for Dutch readers), but they also have been different because of
>having to translate a foreign non-English source. The latter mostly
>happened in the past.
Thanks for this information.
>
>
>> But it sure doesn't make the case better that they treat the stories
>> of the master in the same way as they do with "The new Duckmaster"
>> (That's the name of a homepage)
>What do you mean to say with this? Don Rosa is "The new Duckmaster"
>because a homepage has been titled that way? I really don't see why
>you seem to want to turn this subject into a "Barks heir" discussion.
Rethinking, i don't either - It was not meant to use the name of the
homepage that way. I was just not taking the learning from a lesson i
learned here
through the past month - only refer ones own thouhts - only speak for
yourself...
>> But you dutch people have told me before they have this tradition of
>> redrawng covers and other things - Only the first couple of albums with
>> barks-stories had Barks-covers in Netherland, then it was stopped - Why
>> is that? I'd like to hear the reason for this
>> I don't believe that they don't find the many covers that Barks and
>> others have made not good enough?
>I think the new covers are drawn to give Dutch publications a consistent
>look and style. Different artists have different styles, and even these
>individual styles change throughout the artists's careers. Using these
>covers on principle would give the Dutch covers an inconsistent look,
>and some of these covers are simply not attractive enough for the Dutch
>market. For example, some of the later Gladstone covers would be too
>empty and stiff for a Dutch publication.
Again, an explanation that I can understand. Thanks.
>
>
>>> Here on DCML, the Dutch editors seem to have a bad reputation when
>>> it comes to Don Rosa. This has been going on for years, as long as
>>> I can remember. Do they really deserve that bad reputation, given
>>> the efforts I've just mentioned? Or are there other reasons?
>
>> There sure isn't anything more in my criticism than the fact that
>> *I* think they could put a little more effort into some of these
>> things. Some of the other dutch Rosa-readers I've mailed with think
>> the same...
>
>Undoubtly, there will be people who think the same about this as you
>(or me). There's no need to mention that, while defending/explaining
>your opinion. Let those people stand up and speak for themselves.
Making my mind up I couldn't agree more.
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
>
>Daniel van Eijmeren
>
>>> I repeat that - i would like to meet them [the Dutch editors]
>>> so we could clear up this long-time misunderstandment, as it
>>> probably is.
>
>Okay. I'm curious what they will say. (Do you mean you have plans to
>travel to The Netherlands on the short term?)
No, not any firm plans.
But hoping that this discussion stays what i intended it to be -
afriendly discussion - I hope it's not totally impossible to some
time drive to the netherlands and perhaps visit the ducth fans i know here
from dcml.
>
>I think the multi-part versions are used because they are already
>coloured when the Dutch editors buy them as story material from Egmont.
Aha - I understand that!
>
>I've heard that the extra pages are used to give Rosa's stories some
>moments of rest and recapitulation.
I wouldn't disagree on that.
Me:
>
>> Does this make the whole thing better, if I may so ask?
Daniel:
>
>No, but my point was that the Dutch editor isn't intentionally ignorant
>towards Don Rosa's stories, as has for a long time been suggested here
>on DCML. It's rather the opposite situation, because Don Rosa's stories
>are faithfully published in albums, contrary to most other artists.
I see your point. You are right. Many artists, who really do deserve it,
don't get their stories published in albums, extras and so on.
>
>> Rosa is, maybe to say the most perhaps the heir - an apprentice who
>> didn't meet the "wizard" untill 1998. -
>What do you mean to say with this?
Notice my "to say the most" - to say the least, Don is a cartoonist like
many others.
My personal favorite would still be barks, Rosa is on a close second. To
*me*
> "Don Rosa is the son of god, his only
>son, and no one else will guide
>you to comic book heaven", or something
>like that?
I certainly did not mean to say that, nor do I think it myself. I see Rosa
as my own
favorite, of the people still drawing stories. His way to tell duck
stories is the one I like.
>I don't want to step into such a discussion. And why would you?
I don't want to start that, no. I did not mean to do that when i replied
to the mail another
dutch send. I only wanted to reply, but i maybe went too far.
Actually i would like to meet the publishers, not to eat them, as Harry
jokingly asked,
but to talk - I've had giving talks with the editors from komix and from
Anders And.
>
>There are many, MANY "Barks heirs" who write great stories and draw great
>There are many, MANY "Barks heirs" who write great stories and draw great
>art.
I do agree - sorry to not expressing the agreement more. I do like most of
the stories done
by these heirs, who honnor Barks, use his and others' charecters.
>
>> Barks is, in the yes of many the big master - and they treat the
>> versions of his stories with the same care? Is it impossible to find
>> the original prints, so they could reconstruct what deisappered under
>> resume-boxes or put in again the pages that are gone? The italian
>> publishers does this - so why can't the dutch.
>And why can't anyone else?
Erm, I got lost in our conversation here. Do you imply that i imply that
the italians
are the only ones who do it right? Or should i just stop thinking...
Translators:
>
>I think the Dutch translations of Barks's stories are rather good.
>They not nescessarily 100% accurate to the original words, though.
>Sometimes the Dutch translations are different because of artistic
>reasons (making them more understandable, recognizable, or funnier,
>for Dutch readers), but they also have been different because of
>having to translate a foreign non-English source. The latter mostly
>happened in the past.
Thanks for this information.
>
>
>> But it sure doesn't make the case better that they treat the stories
>> of the master in the same way as they do with "The new Duckmaster"
>> (That's the name of a homepage)
>What do you mean to say with this? Don Rosa is "The new Duckmaster"
>because a homepage has been titled that way? I really don't see why
>you seem to want to turn this subject into a "Barks heir" discussion.
Rethinking, i don't either - It was not meant to use the name of the
homepage that way. I was just not taking the learning from a lesson i
learned here
through the past month - only refer ones own thouhts - only speak for
yourself...
>> But you dutch people have told me before they have this tradition of
>> redrawng covers and other things - Only the first couple of albums with
>> barks-stories had Barks-covers in Netherland, then it was stopped - Why
>> is that? I'd like to hear the reason for this
>> I don't believe that they don't find the many covers that Barks and
>> others have made not good enough?
>I think the new covers are drawn to give Dutch publications a consistent
>look and style. Different artists have different styles, and even these
>individual styles change throughout the artists's careers. Using these
>covers on principle would give the Dutch covers an inconsistent look,
>and some of these covers are simply not attractive enough for the Dutch
>market. For example, some of the later Gladstone covers would be too
>empty and stiff for a Dutch publication.
Again, an explanation that I can understand. Thanks.
>
>
>>> Here on DCML, the Dutch editors seem to have a bad reputation when
>>> it comes to Don Rosa. This has been going on for years, as long as
>>> I can remember. Do they really deserve that bad reputation, given
>>> the efforts I've just mentioned? Or are there other reasons?
>
>> There sure isn't anything more in my criticism than the fact that
>> *I* think they could put a little more effort into some of these
>> things. Some of the other dutch Rosa-readers I've mailed with think
>> the same...
>
>Undoubtly, there will be people who think the same about this as you
>(or me). There's no need to mention that, while defending/explaining
>your opinion. Let those people stand up and speak for themselves.
Making my mind up I couldn't agree more.
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
Anders Christian Sivebæk
Anders to Daniel about Rosa and Barks in the Netherlands
Message 23 -
2003-08-04 at 21:24:01
Harry:
>
>
>> i would like to meet them so we could clear up this
>> long-time misunderstandment, as it probably is.
>
>I don't see how a meeting would clear up any "misunderstandment".
>You make it sound like it's something between the Dutch editors and you
>personally, which only a personal meeting can solve. (And after such a
>meeting, the Dutch will do as you please?)
That was not what i meant - that is not my understanding of a meeting/ a
talk.
In such a talk both parts would listen to each other, and understand more
of the others wievs.
That's the only thing I had as a wish for such a meeting...
>
>
>FYI: many of the covers are drawn by Michel Nadorp, one of the best
>currently active cover artists in the world.
Sorry to bring this up: but this would be your opinion, or whose opinion?
Sorry, just teasing there.
>
>The word "traced" does not give justice to the quality of the covers
>(maybe with one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
Okay, i've just been unlucky seeing those two exceptions. (The covers fro
the Extras with Rosa-stories - there seem to have been more incidents of
the thing I call tracing than 1 or 2, I may be very wrong, and will check
with my archive (collection!).
>
>
>But you *do* mention elsewhere that they are *not* big Rosa-fans.
>You can't know that either, since you have no contact with them.
You are right - sorry I implied that.
>
>The Dutch editors are a bunch of individuals; every individual having his
>own opinions and tastes.
Of course - deep down i know that - Maybe i just couldn't see it, before,
but I will try to.
>
>There are some freelance artists who expressed their dislike of Rosa's
>artwork in public (Janssens, Heymans).
>There are others who think the artwork is OK, but too different from the
>"mainstream" Disney style.
>And there are others who like Rosa's artwork.
I'm getting another lesson now - because of course this is the case with
everyone about any artist/writer...
>
>
>95 per cent of the Dutch editors (and writers and artists) that I have
>met *do* like Rosa's story-telling a lot.
Nice to know :-) One of the editors I've meet at the dansih publisher
likes Rosa's story. i've only meet one, with whom i discussed the subject.
>And one more thing: the Dutch editors don't treat any writer or artist
>different from another. Rosa is a good writer. And (for instance)
>Korhonen is a good writer. There's no reason to treat Rosa's work
>differently from Korhonen's.
But don't they do that? (And now I'm turning around on a plate, or how the
saying goes:) Do they publish Korhonens works in nice albums with covers?
>
>> > They redraw Barks's covers.
>> > Maybe this means they're not much of a Barks fan, either?
>> I again can't know about that before I meat them.
>
>8-)
>You "meat" them would mean you "make meat out of them"...
Erm, no I did not mean to say that, or do that... Gosh... :-)
>
>> But you dutch people have told me before they have this tradition of
>> redrawng
>> covers and other things - Only the first couple of albums with
>> barks-stories had Barks-
>> covers in Netherland, then it was stopped - Why is that?
>
>Only the first BESTE VERHALEN album had a cover that was made out of
>Barks artwork. All others have covers by Jippes and (a few) Nadorp.
Okay
>
>
>The reason for that (as I've been told by the editors) is that the Barks
>covers are not good enough! Barks was a great writer and story artist,
>but not a great cover artist. So even if they use a Barks cover, they
>re-ink it to make it look better.
>After all, the cover of a comic book (or album) is the first thing a
>buyer looks at. So it better be good.
I agree on that - i just don't agree that Barks wasn't a good cover
artist. He made great stories, but many of his covers were IMO great too.
Especially many covers of Uncle Scrooge showing Scrooge in situations -
they were just gags, but funny, and adding something to his personality.
But then, if these should be used for cover on dutch albums... that
wouldn't work, no.
>And personally, I agree. Jippes has made some outstanding comic book
>covers. I'd even suggest that part of the success of Gladstone's first
>comic book run (1986-1989) was due to the many excellent Jippes covers!
Hasn't Rosa once told what he thought when he first saw a Gladstone-issue:
A Barks-cover I hadn't seen? And that was not meant as an example of how
good Jippes is, that he can draw like barks, or something like that. It
was meant as an example that you are right - jippes is a good cover
artist. I have many of those covers myself.
>
>
>> There sure isn't anything more in my criticism than the fact that
>> *I* think they could put a little more effort into some of
>> these things.
>
>Yes, I have the feeling you're blaming them for being very good, but not
>perfect.
Hmm.... Maybe I did - But rewally I am not entitled to do that. Afterall,
as they say, noone is perfect.
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
>
>
>> i would like to meet them so we could clear up this
>> long-time misunderstandment, as it probably is.
>
>I don't see how a meeting would clear up any "misunderstandment".
>You make it sound like it's something between the Dutch editors and you
>personally, which only a personal meeting can solve. (And after such a
>meeting, the Dutch will do as you please?)
That was not what i meant - that is not my understanding of a meeting/ a
talk.
In such a talk both parts would listen to each other, and understand more
of the others wievs.
That's the only thing I had as a wish for such a meeting...
>
>
>FYI: many of the covers are drawn by Michel Nadorp, one of the best
>currently active cover artists in the world.
Sorry to bring this up: but this would be your opinion, or whose opinion?
Sorry, just teasing there.
>
>The word "traced" does not give justice to the quality of the covers
>(maybe with one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
Okay, i've just been unlucky seeing those two exceptions. (The covers fro
the Extras with Rosa-stories - there seem to have been more incidents of
the thing I call tracing than 1 or 2, I may be very wrong, and will check
with my archive (collection!).
>
>
>But you *do* mention elsewhere that they are *not* big Rosa-fans.
>You can't know that either, since you have no contact with them.
You are right - sorry I implied that.
>
>The Dutch editors are a bunch of individuals; every individual having his
>own opinions and tastes.
Of course - deep down i know that - Maybe i just couldn't see it, before,
but I will try to.
>
>There are some freelance artists who expressed their dislike of Rosa's
>artwork in public (Janssens, Heymans).
>There are others who think the artwork is OK, but too different from the
>"mainstream" Disney style.
>And there are others who like Rosa's artwork.
I'm getting another lesson now - because of course this is the case with
everyone about any artist/writer...
>
>
>95 per cent of the Dutch editors (and writers and artists) that I have
>met *do* like Rosa's story-telling a lot.
Nice to know :-) One of the editors I've meet at the dansih publisher
likes Rosa's story. i've only meet one, with whom i discussed the subject.
>And one more thing: the Dutch editors don't treat any writer or artist
>different from another. Rosa is a good writer. And (for instance)
>Korhonen is a good writer. There's no reason to treat Rosa's work
>differently from Korhonen's.
But don't they do that? (And now I'm turning around on a plate, or how the
saying goes:) Do they publish Korhonens works in nice albums with covers?
>
>> > They redraw Barks's covers.
>> > Maybe this means they're not much of a Barks fan, either?
>> I again can't know about that before I meat them.
>
>8-)
>You "meat" them would mean you "make meat out of them"...
Erm, no I did not mean to say that, or do that... Gosh... :-)
>
>> But you dutch people have told me before they have this tradition of
>> redrawng
>> covers and other things - Only the first couple of albums with
>> barks-stories had Barks-
>> covers in Netherland, then it was stopped - Why is that?
>
>Only the first BESTE VERHALEN album had a cover that was made out of
>Barks artwork. All others have covers by Jippes and (a few) Nadorp.
Okay
>
>
>The reason for that (as I've been told by the editors) is that the Barks
>covers are not good enough! Barks was a great writer and story artist,
>but not a great cover artist. So even if they use a Barks cover, they
>re-ink it to make it look better.
>After all, the cover of a comic book (or album) is the first thing a
>buyer looks at. So it better be good.
I agree on that - i just don't agree that Barks wasn't a good cover
artist. He made great stories, but many of his covers were IMO great too.
Especially many covers of Uncle Scrooge showing Scrooge in situations -
they were just gags, but funny, and adding something to his personality.
But then, if these should be used for cover on dutch albums... that
wouldn't work, no.
>And personally, I agree. Jippes has made some outstanding comic book
>covers. I'd even suggest that part of the success of Gladstone's first
>comic book run (1986-1989) was due to the many excellent Jippes covers!
Hasn't Rosa once told what he thought when he first saw a Gladstone-issue:
A Barks-cover I hadn't seen? And that was not meant as an example of how
good Jippes is, that he can draw like barks, or something like that. It
was meant as an example that you are right - jippes is a good cover
artist. I have many of those covers myself.
>
>
>> There sure isn't anything more in my criticism than the fact that
>> *I* think they could put a little more effort into some of
>> these things.
>
>Yes, I have the feeling you're blaming them for being very good, but not
>perfect.
Hmm.... Maybe I did - But rewally I am not entitled to do that. Afterall,
as they say, noone is perfect.
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
H.W.Fluks
Anders to Daniel about Rosa and Barks in the Netherlands
Message 24 -
2003-08-04 at 21:35:22
ACS:
> > FYI: many of the covers are drawn by Michel Nadorp, one of the best
> > currently active cover artists in the world.
> Sorry to bring this up: but this would be your opinion, or
> whose opinion?
No, it's a fact: many of the covers ARE drawn by Michel Nadorp. 8-)
> >The word "traced" does not give justice to the quality of the covers
> >(maybe with one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
> Okay, i've just been unlucky seeing those two exceptions.
> (The covers fro
> the Extras with Rosa-stories - there seem to have been more
> incidents of
> the thing I call tracing than 1 or 2, I may be very wrong,
> and will check with my archive (collection!).
Remember, when 2 covers look similar, it's also possible that Rosa "traced" the original Dutch cover!
--Harry.
> > FYI: many of the covers are drawn by Michel Nadorp, one of the best
> > currently active cover artists in the world.
> Sorry to bring this up: but this would be your opinion, or
> whose opinion?
No, it's a fact: many of the covers ARE drawn by Michel Nadorp. 8-)
> >The word "traced" does not give justice to the quality of the covers
> >(maybe with one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).
> Okay, i've just been unlucky seeing those two exceptions.
> (The covers fro
> the Extras with Rosa-stories - there seem to have been more
> incidents of
> the thing I call tracing than 1 or 2, I may be very wrong,
> and will check with my archive (collection!).
Remember, when 2 covers look similar, it's also possible that Rosa "traced" the original Dutch cover!
--Harry.
Anders Christian Sivebæk
Anders to Daniel about Rosa and Barks in the Netherlands
Message 25 -
2003-08-04 at 21:44:30
Hi all
>
Harry
>
>No, it's a fact: many of the covers ARE drawn by Michel Nadorp. 8-)
Okay - well, i grant that - and I do admit that I was quite keen on the
cover
he made for the album carrying Don's Universal Solvent -
that was a nice idea (I guess the cover must be showed somewhere? yes, no?
>
>Remember, when 2 covers look similar, it's also possible that Rosa
>"traced" the original Dutch cover!
That's a good idea - I don't think it did happen, but Don could take that
idea. start "tracing" ducth covers - as said that one for Universal
Solvent was quite good ;-)
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
>
Harry
>
>No, it's a fact: many of the covers ARE drawn by Michel Nadorp. 8-)
Okay - well, i grant that - and I do admit that I was quite keen on the
cover
he made for the album carrying Don's Universal Solvent -
that was a nice idea (I guess the cover must be showed somewhere? yes, no?
>
>Remember, when 2 covers look similar, it's also possible that Rosa
>"traced" the original Dutch cover!
That's a good idea - I don't think it did happen, but Don could take that
idea. start "tracing" ducth covers - as said that one for Universal
Solvent was quite good ;-)
Hilsen/Yours
Anders Christian Siveb?k
Donaldist
Rich Bellacera
Clerkly, Battista, Cora, Gloria & a Rover?
Message 26 -
2003-08-04 at 22:00:53
Hi,
I'm still in the process of collecting data for the coming update to the HooZoo.
If anyone can answer these, please help:
1) Scrooge's dogface staff member named Clerkly. Was his first appearance in
Barks' "Lost Beneath the Sea"? And, does he have a more complete name or has he
always just been called "Clerkly"? Also, other than being Scrooge's staff member,
do we know anything specific about what sort of work he does for Scrooge?
2) In Scrooge's very first appearance in "Christmas on Bear Mountain" there is, if
I recall correctly, a dogface butler who is not named in the story. It has been
said on this Mailing List that Scrooge's first butler was called "Albert," and the
current Butler, outside of the DuckTales continuity, is called "Battista." Now
since Albert and Battista are both dogfaces and I've seen several variations on
Battista with short black hair, curly brown hair and even straight white hair, is
it possible that Albert and Battista are the same character? If not, why not? I
know that with Miss Quackfaster/Typefast we've seen her depicted as both an
elderly duck with white hair and a much younger 20-ish taller duck with a blond
ponytail, so I think it's possible that the many looks of Battista are just
variations as interpretted by different artists.
3) Who is Cora Crane?
4) Does Fethry's girlfriend Gloria have a second name?
5) On Morty & Ferdie's soccer team, the Riverside Rovers, there are 12 players and
three spectators who regularly appear in these stories. I know who the first 11
players are, but the 12th player is unknown to me. He is a little dogface boy
with red hair wearing the number 12. Does anyone know his name? Also, who are
the three kid spectators? One is a cat-girl, one is a pig-girl and the other, I'm
not sure what species he is because he wears a long striped scarf wrapped around
his mouth and neck and a knit cap on his head which make it difficult to know.
I have more questions, but I'll try to pace myself..
THanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://cwnet.com/
I'm still in the process of collecting data for the coming update to the HooZoo.
If anyone can answer these, please help:
1) Scrooge's dogface staff member named Clerkly. Was his first appearance in
Barks' "Lost Beneath the Sea"? And, does he have a more complete name or has he
always just been called "Clerkly"? Also, other than being Scrooge's staff member,
do we know anything specific about what sort of work he does for Scrooge?
2) In Scrooge's very first appearance in "Christmas on Bear Mountain" there is, if
I recall correctly, a dogface butler who is not named in the story. It has been
said on this Mailing List that Scrooge's first butler was called "Albert," and the
current Butler, outside of the DuckTales continuity, is called "Battista." Now
since Albert and Battista are both dogfaces and I've seen several variations on
Battista with short black hair, curly brown hair and even straight white hair, is
it possible that Albert and Battista are the same character? If not, why not? I
know that with Miss Quackfaster/Typefast we've seen her depicted as both an
elderly duck with white hair and a much younger 20-ish taller duck with a blond
ponytail, so I think it's possible that the many looks of Battista are just
variations as interpretted by different artists.
3) Who is Cora Crane?
4) Does Fethry's girlfriend Gloria have a second name?
5) On Morty & Ferdie's soccer team, the Riverside Rovers, there are 12 players and
three spectators who regularly appear in these stories. I know who the first 11
players are, but the 12th player is unknown to me. He is a little dogface boy
with red hair wearing the number 12. Does anyone know his name? Also, who are
the three kid spectators? One is a cat-girl, one is a pig-girl and the other, I'm
not sure what species he is because he wears a long striped scarf wrapped around
his mouth and neck and a knit cap on his head which make it difficult to know.
I have more questions, but I'll try to pace myself..
THanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://cwnet.com/
Søren Krarup Olesen
AC, DvE and DR
Message 27 -
2003-08-04 at 22:08:00
AC + DANI?L + DON:
Sorry for picking things out of context, but please...
> Erm, I got lost in our conversation here. Do you imply that i imply
> that the italians
> are the only ones who do it right? Or should i just stop thinking...
AC, please do NOT stop thinking! :-) C'mon, gents (and this goes for Dani?l as
well). All this talk about heiring this or that from Barks is getting a bit
tedious--as if he was the only reference point.
Forgive me for being so broadminded (or is it narrowminded since I haven't seen the
"light"?!), but between me and the rest of you folks, there *are* in fact other
things of interest when it comes to Disney comics.
During our DDF(R) meeting (which AC hopefully will tell much more about--looking
forward to it :-), I heard something shocking during the meeting. Even coming from
someone I respect very much. Now, I was about to chose certain issues from 1964,
of which I don't have many (only half the volume or so). I turned a few issues and
then all of a sudden I was stopped being told that this one was superior to the
rest, since it "contained a 10-pager"! My first unsaid question was what the...? but
then I realised that it of course contained a Barks story. However, what my good
companion did not realise was, that I was looking for interesting stories...rare
stories...like special D-coded ones that nobody would ever notice on a normal Tuesday
morning.
I am still wondering what became of the fans of Disney comics in general. Must
they all relate to Barks or (even worse) Rosa. Is that the marks Disney comics
get nowadays: Sorry pal, no Rosa refs, we can't let you pass...?!
Don, you once wrote to me in private, that you "pity me" for not liking your stories
(in fact I do but apparently you ignored that in your eager to promote yourself).
Well, I pity you for not liking the Disney comics universe! And that message applies
to all your disciples.
S?ren
Sorry for picking things out of context, but please...
> Erm, I got lost in our conversation here. Do you imply that i imply
> that the italians
> are the only ones who do it right? Or should i just stop thinking...
AC, please do NOT stop thinking! :-) C'mon, gents (and this goes for Dani?l as
well). All this talk about heiring this or that from Barks is getting a bit
tedious--as if he was the only reference point.
Forgive me for being so broadminded (or is it narrowminded since I haven't seen the
"light"?!), but between me and the rest of you folks, there *are* in fact other
things of interest when it comes to Disney comics.
During our DDF(R) meeting (which AC hopefully will tell much more about--looking
forward to it :-), I heard something shocking during the meeting. Even coming from
someone I respect very much. Now, I was about to chose certain issues from 1964,
of which I don't have many (only half the volume or so). I turned a few issues and
then all of a sudden I was stopped being told that this one was superior to the
rest, since it "contained a 10-pager"! My first unsaid question was what the...? but
then I realised that it of course contained a Barks story. However, what my good
companion did not realise was, that I was looking for interesting stories...rare
stories...like special D-coded ones that nobody would ever notice on a normal Tuesday
morning.
I am still wondering what became of the fans of Disney comics in general. Must
they all relate to Barks or (even worse) Rosa. Is that the marks Disney comics
get nowadays: Sorry pal, no Rosa refs, we can't let you pass...?!
Don, you once wrote to me in private, that you "pity me" for not liking your stories
(in fact I do but apparently you ignored that in your eager to promote yourself).
Well, I pity you for not liking the Disney comics universe! And that message applies
to all your disciples.
S?ren
Angus McDuck
Anders to Daniel about Rosa and Barks in the Netherlands
Message 28 -
2003-08-04 at 22:09:39
Hi everyone,
I think this site is mentioned before, but it couldn't do any harm to give him once again, wouldn't it? I mean the site with all the Dutch covers for almost every Disney magazine published in the Netherlands. On the following link, I've selected the one with all the "Oom Dagobert album" covers. And also ofcourse with the cover of Universal Solvent, you asked for: http://mars.spaceports.com/~ddossier/old/ddd.htm
Greetings from Bernard, a Dutch Duck fan happy with what is published in his country...
---------------------------------
Want to chat instantly with your online friends??Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger
I think this site is mentioned before, but it couldn't do any harm to give him once again, wouldn't it? I mean the site with all the Dutch covers for almost every Disney magazine published in the Netherlands. On the following link, I've selected the one with all the "Oom Dagobert album" covers. And also ofcourse with the cover of Universal Solvent, you asked for: http://mars.spaceports.com/~ddossier/old/ddd.htm
Greetings from Bernard, a Dutch Duck fan happy with what is published in his country...
---------------------------------
Want to chat instantly with your online friends??Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger
Daniel Van Eijmeren
AC, DvE and DR
Message 29 -
2003-08-04 at 23:20:08
SOEREN KRARUP OLESEN to ANDERS CHRISTIAN SIVEBAEK, 04-08-2003:
> AC, please do NOT stop thinking! :-) C'mon, gents (and this goes
> for Dani?l as well). All this talk about heiring this or that
> from Barks is getting a bit tedious--as if he was the only
> reference point.
My email was NOT about Barks being the only reference point.
Why do you think so?
I just wrote that Barks has many more "heirs" than Don Rosa, as a reply
to a statement that (as I thought) tried to state the opposite.
The Disney universe would be rather boring if just one artist (or only
a chosen few) would be the only reference point.
--- Dani?l
> AC, please do NOT stop thinking! :-) C'mon, gents (and this goes
> for Dani?l as well). All this talk about heiring this or that
> from Barks is getting a bit tedious--as if he was the only
> reference point.
My email was NOT about Barks being the only reference point.
Why do you think so?
I just wrote that Barks has many more "heirs" than Don Rosa, as a reply
to a statement that (as I thought) tried to state the opposite.
The Disney universe would be rather boring if just one artist (or only
a chosen few) would be the only reference point.
--- Dani?l
Søren Krarup Olesen
AC, DvE and DR
Message 30 -
2003-08-04 at 23:45:25
DANI?L + DON:
On Monday 04 August 2003 22:20, Daniel van Eijmeren wrote:
> SOEREN KRARUP OLESEN to ANDERS CHRISTIAN SIVEBAEK, 04-08-2003:
> > AC, please do NOT stop thinking! :-) C'mon, gents (and this goes
> > for Dani?l as well). All this talk about heiring this or that
> > from Barks is getting a bit tedious--as if he was the only
> > reference point.
>
> My email was NOT about Barks being the only reference point.
> Why do you think so?
"Think so"?! But your major reference point *is* Barks, Dani?l, or
am I missing some details in your mails. Not that I care personally,
because my mail is about other things than your personal preferences.
Besides, I do not wish to start a quarrel with you Dani?l, basically
because I believe that we agree too much--do correct me, if I am wrong.
I quoted a private mail from Don, because I find it utterly childish,
and that's all there is to it. If a mail or a message reach some kind of
sillyness, I find it both lack-of-respect but also worth to show to
the happy readers of this mailing list.
If messages on the other hand were explaining or thoroughly answered like
"yes-I-see-your-point-but..." that would be fine, but in this particular
case...no, Sire!
S?ren
On Monday 04 August 2003 22:20, Daniel van Eijmeren wrote:
> SOEREN KRARUP OLESEN to ANDERS CHRISTIAN SIVEBAEK, 04-08-2003:
> > AC, please do NOT stop thinking! :-) C'mon, gents (and this goes
> > for Dani?l as well). All this talk about heiring this or that
> > from Barks is getting a bit tedious--as if he was the only
> > reference point.
>
> My email was NOT about Barks being the only reference point.
> Why do you think so?
"Think so"?! But your major reference point *is* Barks, Dani?l, or
am I missing some details in your mails. Not that I care personally,
because my mail is about other things than your personal preferences.
Besides, I do not wish to start a quarrel with you Dani?l, basically
because I believe that we agree too much--do correct me, if I am wrong.
I quoted a private mail from Don, because I find it utterly childish,
and that's all there is to it. If a mail or a message reach some kind of
sillyness, I find it both lack-of-respect but also worth to show to
the happy readers of this mailing list.
If messages on the other hand were explaining or thoroughly answered like
"yes-I-see-your-point-but..." that would be fine, but in this particular
case...no, Sire!
S?ren