Keskustelujen arkisto

Sorry to quote Dani?l on this, but my mailbox is so filled up that I can't find
Sigvald's post, so...

> SIGVALD GROSFJELD to MICHEL PRIOR, 14-08-2003:
>
> > Marco Rota once tried to write about Donald's life. Many people,
> > even here at DCML, think that he failed because he didn't knew
> > enough about Barks' views about the relations in the Duck-family -
> > facts that were partly revealed in "Race to the South Seas".

Funny coincidence. I was just writing something about this in another forum, and
feels like putting in a translation of my opinions of a certain matter here.

In a discussion on who was the greatest artist (the discussion was titled "Barks
or Rosa?"), someone said that they didn't like Rota, and especially not his
hidden "Marks"es, as that would imply Rota was a true Barksist, which he's not
for several reasons, among them that he thinks of Scrooge and Grandma as
siblings.

I replied:

"Knut:
How many stories can you show us where Rota says that Scrooge and Grandma are
siblings? So far, I've found ONE: "From egg to duck". You may have more, but in
that case I'd like to hear examples.

"From egg to duck" was Donald's life story. This story was written for Italian
Mondadori, and as it was about Donald's life, it was quite natural that both
Scrooge and Grandma was in it. So... Rota simply HAD TO say Scrooge and Grandma
was siblings. If he hadn't done that, the story would never have been printed.
It's as easy as that.

You see, Scrooge and Grandma WAS siblings. And that has nothing to do with Marco
Rota - they had been in decades (I think) before Rota wrote "From egg to duck" -
in Mondadori stories. And it WAS a Mondadori story he wrote. We'd seen so many
stories where Scrooge and Grandma were siblings that we didn't wonder about that
anymore. It was a nailed fact. Marco Rota had nothing to do with that.

What would have happened if Rota in the story had shown ANOTHER relationship
between the two, or if he hadn't shown it at all? Two things could have
happened. Either the story would have been refused - or his editor would have
changed it.

Another question: How many stories can you show us where Barks says that Scrooge
and Grandma are NOT siblings?

So far, I've found ONE: "Race to the South Seas". But it isn't exactly said very
clearly here - one must interpret it on one's own from how Donald and Gladstone
claim to be related to Scrooge.

And of course, there's Carl Barks' Family tree. But even though this was drawn
as early as in 1950, it hasn't been published. OK, it was published in CBL #6,
but how many has this book? (And when did it come? OK, I assume it was before
1984, when "From egg to duck" was written, but anyhow this family tree was NOT
very well-known in Europe!)

In addition, remember that we for decades had read in Italian stories that
Scrooge and Grandma were siblings. Marco Rota IS an Italian. He wrote this story
for an Italian editorial desk. To publish in a country where EVERYBODY knew that
Scrooge and Grandma were siblings. Actually, to publish in SEVERAL countries
where everybody knew that Scrooge and Grandma were siblings (among them Norway,
where we had already read about this realationship in "Donald Pocket" and "Onkel
Skrue" booklets for almost twenty years).

My point is: This relationship was NECESSARY if the story should ever have been
published at all - and, maybe Rota simply didn't even KNOW that Barks thought
that Scrooge and Grandma were siblings... YES, I mean that in 1984 you should be
allowed to call yourself a Barksist without knowing this. Saying Scrooge were
the brother of the wife of the son of Grandma was as unlikely in Europe twenty
years ago as it would have been saying a thousand years ago that Earth were
round as a ball.

I'm sick and tired that EVERY TIME someone discusses Barks and Rota, this
siblinghood is mentioned. Unless one was very observant or a devoted collector
of foreign comics, there was NO DOUBT that Scrooge and Grandma was siblings,
even though one had read most of what Barks had written. And when we in addition
grew up with that they WERE... I think that ANY Italian writing that story would
have mentioned that siblinghood, no matted how much they respected Barks. But
this is something mentioned EVERY TIME we discuss this - as if this relationship
was something Marco Rota had made up himself. Well, he didn't! It was strongly
established - it was A FACT!

Europe wasn't enlightened on this real relationship before "The charge-up
Kill-Motor hill" came in 1994. Almost TEN YEARS AFTER "From egg to duck" came,
after Egmont had hired new, American editors. And suddenly Marco Rota had to
take all the rotten tomatoes, for doing what an entire continent had done before
him, and he anyway would have been forced doing in such a story. Why?

After this Marco Rota haven't written anything showing what relationship Scrooge
and Grandma has - but my guess would be that he, as the barksist he is, has
changed his mind on this point.

Personally I accept BOTH these relationships, and I've read good stories
supporting both of them. If I should ever need to mention this in one of MY
stories, I would go with the Barks-relationship (not that Egmont would give me
much of a choice). But I like the thought of Scrooge and Grandma being siblings,
and have read several good stories about it."

Any opinions? I guess what I really want to discuss here, is: "Could one in 1984
call oneself a barksist without knowing that Barks didn't think that Scrooge and
Grandma were siblings?"

Other thoughts:
-- Have ANYONE heard from Rota on this siblinghood AFTER "Life of Scrooge" came?
-- Who created the relationship between Scrooge and Grandma as siblings?
-- Why did this relationship fall apart so easily when "Life of Scrooge" came?
No offense to Don Rosa, but this new relationship was so despite everything we
grew up with that I'm surprised it ever got through... even though it came from
Barks originally.

Quack,
Olaf the Blue

Olaf Solstrand said:
> Rota simply HAD TO say Scrooge and Grandma
> was siblings. If he hadn't done that, the
> story would never have been printed.
> It's as easy as that.

Heh :-) ... Reading this reminded me that Rosa once (or twice???) wrote a
DuckTales ( http://stp.ling.uu.se/cgi-bin/starback/dcml/story?K+DTM+90i ) story
which *GASP!* included Launchpad McQuack!!!!! One might feel obliged to dislike
Rosa as not a TRUE Barks-ist for having committed such a blasphemous act! So what
if it was *for the money!* Barks never included Launchpad in any of his stories!

(*tongue firmly in cheek*) :-)

Still, bringing up the issue of "From Egg to Duck" (which I have and also love!),
I loved the quote from Barks in the recent post from Timo Ronkainen (
http://stp.ling.uu.se/pipermail/dcml/2003-August/024193.html ) where Barks
says, "Put them back in the egg," concerning the creation of Huey, Dewey & Louie,
and makes me wonder if that is any indication of Barks' opinion of where Donald
and other Disney Duck come from.... LOL! Uh-oh... here we go again! :-P

Thanks,

Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)

---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://cwnet.com/

Regarding the relationship between Scrooge and Grandma Duck,
Olaf wrote:
>Personally I accept BOTH these relationships, and I've read
>good stories supporting both of them. If I should ever need to
>mention this in one of MY stories, I would go with the
Barks->relationship (not that Egmont would give me
>much of a choice). But I like the thought of Scrooge and
>Grandma being siblings,
>and have read several good stories about it."

As an American I haven't been exposed to many stories showing
Scrooge and Grandma as siblings. I never read anything in a
Barks story, that I recall, that made me think they were, or
weren't. While growing up, I guess I just assumed they weren't
blood relations, but I never really consciously thought about
it.

I love the character of Scrooge very much, and have since before
I knew how to read and had to have my father read the comics to
me! I also like Grandma Duck, and think she's a very strong
character, (as well as one of the only recurring female
characters.) I wanted to include her (and Magica DeSpell, for
that matter) in my "Every Duck Has Her Day" research paper, but
ran out of time and energy and had to focus only on Daisy and
Goldie. It's a pity, though, since I do find her character
interesting. She has a lot of potential.

I'm a big fan of the Barks/Rosa continuum, but I still really
like finding out how other writers see the characters. Both
Grandma and Scrooge are very good, strong, likable characters.
It's a compliment to both of them to be considered related to
each other! ;) I hope stories featuring the "siblings" theory
appear in the new Gemstone issues. I will always think of the
Lo$ version as the "real" relationship in my mind, but I'm
interested--and will most certainly be entertained--by reading
stories that differ.

As for a biographical story about Donald, I haven't read Rota's
story, so I really can't comment. But I always especially enjoy
background stories and origin stories of that sort. So I hope
it appears in a Gemstone issue, too.

Katie Sullivan
http://www.sullivanet.com/

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I misspelled "Barksist" as "Barkist" in my previous email.

Please notice that the word itself leaves me cold.
I'd never want to be called that way.

--- Dani?l, no Barksist, just a well-informed Barks fan

Hi!
I saved a page from COA while it had still its old adress (coa.duckburg.dk)
which was the page of this character :

>>>Grandma Goofy
>>>Original name: Grandma Goofy
>>>[GO's grandmother who wears a baseball jersey]
>>>Finnish: Iso?iti Hissu
>>>Italian: Nonna Peppa
>>>Appearances: 2 (US Daily strips:1 ; US Sunday pages:1)
>>>but this character isn't indexed anymore in COA...

could anyone tell me the references of the strip ad the sunday page?
if anyone could provide scans and info on the character and on the plot,
that'd be nice

there is another story in which a grandma of Goofy appears :
The Granny Hang-Up"(W SG 42-01) by Kay Wright ( called "Granny Goof")
scans of this grandma would be welcome too

Rich, is it possible that the scan of grandma you sent me is from one of
these stories?

If anybody is aware of other appearances of Goofy's grandma, please tell me

Gilles
ps : David, thank you for the original names

Barks certainly thought the Ducks came to life hatching from eggs, it makes
no doubts for me.

Rosa doesn't think so at all, he thinks they come to life like mammals, or at
least like humans
(this makes me wonder : how can you feed your duck-baby when you have no
nipples? :-) )
He sees the reference to eggs in Barks' Fountain of Youth story as a *joke*,
which would also be a possible explanation, as in this story,
nothing tells us that the Ducks were really actually born in eggs. But in
Barks' mind, it sure didn't happen like this at all.

That does not make Rosa not being a Barksist : you can be a Barksist who
only cares about *published stuff*, not about what Barks could
have thought or told in an interview, nor about Barks unpublished stuff such
as his Duck Family Tree for instance (I've got at least two trees made with a
donaldistic spirit, but with Scrooge and Grandma being siblings), you can be a
Barksist who cares about all the stuff that came from Barks, you
can be a Barksist who cares about all of his stories, you can be a Barksist
who only cares about Barks-written stories, or only Barks-arted
stories, and so on... Barksist means at the same time lots of things and
nothing (and so does "Donaldist", to me).

This little difference between Barks and Rosa's points of view should make
some people here realize that Rosa's Duck universe shouldn't be considered as a
continuation of Barks' Duck universe, but as an *interpretation* of it...

Gilles

Gilles wrote:

> (this makes me wonder : how can you feed your
> duck-baby when you have no nipples?

First: the Female Ducks are not shown with their chest naked so we can't
really know if they have nipples or not.

Second: showing/Not showing nipples is probably a matter of censorship.

Sigvald