David Gerstein, Gary :
As David knows, I've had this curiosity for a long time, and
maybe I'm finally going to find out...
Italian authors working for the Disney Studio Program often
maintained that the stories coming from Burbank were so bad
they had to rewrite them from scratch, to the point that barely
the title remained intact...
My curiosity is that of having a look at one of those original
scripts, because I just can't believe they could have been
worse than the final versions, some of them at least... :-)
Now, what about "The Big Break-In" ? Is what we read in US 320
the original Carl Fallberg script and dialogue, or is this an
italian "rewrite" ?
Because if it's not, Scarpa and ALL the other italian authors
must have been lying all the time, the Gemstone version is
absolutely identical to the original italian one, with dialogue
faithfully translated...
Or maybe this was a unusually "lucky" story... :-)
Cheers!
Eta Beta
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Author
Topic: 200308
(787 messages)
Eta Beta
On the Studio Program
Message 556 -
2003-08-22 at 13:17:09
H.W.Fluks
Somewhere in Nowhere - when will we see it?
Message 557 -
2003-08-22 at 14:35:08
Here's Sigvald again, trying to be positive:
> From what I have heard Egmont was originally offered this story, but
> rejected the offer because the price demanded for it was to
> high. Can this be correct?
Yes, it can be correct, if you spell "too high" correctly. 8-)
> I thought that Egmont usually pay a set amount of
> $ per page
> regardless of the complexity of the art and regardless of who
> has drawn the art.
That may be the case. And if that is the case, it explains why the demand price for "Somewhere in Nowhere" was too high for Egmont.
> Another question is if there is any connection between the price
> demanded for this story and Don Rosa's strike a few years
> later
There is no connection at all. I have the impression that you have no idea what Don's strike was about. (BTW, there's no need to go further into this matter. It's not relevant here anyway.)
> - as there
> obviously is no reason to pay Lustig/Block any better than Don.
Obviously? Can you explain how I should read this sentence, while also keeping in mind what you wrote: "I have been too critical towards too many artist/creators"?
And what about Barks? Why do you only mention "Lustig/Block" as people-to-be-paid for that story?
--Harry.
> From what I have heard Egmont was originally offered this story, but
> rejected the offer because the price demanded for it was to
> high. Can this be correct?
Yes, it can be correct, if you spell "too high" correctly. 8-)
> I thought that Egmont usually pay a set amount of
> $ per page
> regardless of the complexity of the art and regardless of who
> has drawn the art.
That may be the case. And if that is the case, it explains why the demand price for "Somewhere in Nowhere" was too high for Egmont.
> Another question is if there is any connection between the price
> demanded for this story and Don Rosa's strike a few years
> later
There is no connection at all. I have the impression that you have no idea what Don's strike was about. (BTW, there's no need to go further into this matter. It's not relevant here anyway.)
> - as there
> obviously is no reason to pay Lustig/Block any better than Don.
Obviously? Can you explain how I should read this sentence, while also keeping in mind what you wrote: "I have been too critical towards too many artist/creators"?
And what about Barks? Why do you only mention "Lustig/Block" as people-to-be-paid for that story?
--Harry.
Kristian Pedersen
Lichtenstein painting
Message 558 -
2003-08-22 at 15:23:15
Today a big exhibition of the works of Roy
Lichtenstein is opening in Copenhagen. Among the works
on display is a painting of Donald Duck and Mickey
Mouse fishing from a pier, Donald having accidentally
hooked his own shirt and saying "Look Mickey! I caught
a big one!"
The exhibition is getting rave reviews in all the
newspapers. Personally I can't help getting irritated
that none of the reviewers comment on what is
blindingly obvious to any Disney comics fan: The
drawing of Donald and Mickey is extremely inept. There
were some pretty bad drawings in the Danish weekly in
the late sixties, but I don't think I ever saw a
Disney comics picture this bad. I suppose art people
will argue that the ugliness is Lichtenstein's point,
and go on about deterioration of aesthetic values in
the modern world and so on. My own suspicion is that
he simply wasn't able to draw them, but that suspicion
may be down to some form of inverted snobbery in me!
Does anybody here know whether that painting was based
on a real panel, or whether Lichtenstein made it up? A
scan is probably on the web somewhere, but I haven't
found any, unfortunately
Best regards,
Kristian
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Lichtenstein is opening in Copenhagen. Among the works
on display is a painting of Donald Duck and Mickey
Mouse fishing from a pier, Donald having accidentally
hooked his own shirt and saying "Look Mickey! I caught
a big one!"
The exhibition is getting rave reviews in all the
newspapers. Personally I can't help getting irritated
that none of the reviewers comment on what is
blindingly obvious to any Disney comics fan: The
drawing of Donald and Mickey is extremely inept. There
were some pretty bad drawings in the Danish weekly in
the late sixties, but I don't think I ever saw a
Disney comics picture this bad. I suppose art people
will argue that the ugliness is Lichtenstein's point,
and go on about deterioration of aesthetic values in
the modern world and so on. My own suspicion is that
he simply wasn't able to draw them, but that suspicion
may be down to some form of inverted snobbery in me!
Does anybody here know whether that painting was based
on a real panel, or whether Lichtenstein made it up? A
scan is probably on the web somewhere, but I haven't
found any, unfortunately
Best regards,
Kristian
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Daniel Van Eijmeren
Barks/Jippes Be Leery Of Lake Eerie
Message 559 -
2003-08-22 at 17:38:35
ARI SEPPI to me, 21-08-2003:
>> Jippes has inked two endings. Which version did they use?
>> The sweet ending, the cynical ending, or both?
> Both, the one used at the end of the story was the cynical
> and the sweet was included as illustration for an article
> about the story.
I understood that. But is it shown as being *INKED* by Jippes?
(If so, can someone put scans of both endings online?)
--- Dani?l
>> Jippes has inked two endings. Which version did they use?
>> The sweet ending, the cynical ending, or both?
> Both, the one used at the end of the story was the cynical
> and the sweet was included as illustration for an article
> about the story.
I understood that. But is it shown as being *INKED* by Jippes?
(If so, can someone put scans of both endings online?)
--- Dani?l
Cord Wiljes
AW: Fanbase loss
Message 560 -
2003-08-22 at 17:38:57
I wrote:
> I could also have used Jean Cocteau ans Henry Ford, I suppose.
Make that _John_Ford! I did that on purpose, you know ;-)
Cord
> I could also have used Jean Cocteau ans Henry Ford, I suppose.
Make that _John_Ford! I did that on purpose, you know ;-)
Cord
Ari Seppi
Barks/Jippes Be Leery Of Lake Eerie
Message 561 -
2003-08-22 at 17:41:31
Dani?l:
>Was Jippes's inked version of the sweet ending not included? Only the
>sketches?
Both sketches and the inked version were used.
>I'm curious if someone has seen the inked sweet version.
So about one fifth of the Finnish population has seen it.
> > Both, the one used at the end of the story was the cynical
> > and the sweet was included as illustration for an article
> > about the story.
>I understood that. But is it shown as being *INKED* by Jippes?
How could you understand it before anybody mentioned it here ?-)
>(If so, can someone put scans of both endings online?)
If nobody else does before I can, I'll make the scan.
--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
>Was Jippes's inked version of the sweet ending not included? Only the
>sketches?
Both sketches and the inked version were used.
>I'm curious if someone has seen the inked sweet version.
So about one fifth of the Finnish population has seen it.
> > Both, the one used at the end of the story was the cynical
> > and the sweet was included as illustration for an article
> > about the story.
>I understood that. But is it shown as being *INKED* by Jippes?
How could you understand it before anybody mentioned it here ?-)
>(If so, can someone put scans of both endings online?)
If nobody else does before I can, I'll make the scan.
--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Gerstein, David DK - ECN
On the Studio Program
Message 562 -
2003-08-22 at 18:04:48
Pgreetings Eta,
>Now, what about "The Big Break-In" ? Is what we read in US 320
>the original Carl Fallberg script and dialogue, or is this an
>italian "rewrite" ?
The Egmont archives contain black-and-white photostats to the
'final' Disney Studio version of the story: that is to say, Scarpa art with
English language dialogue in the voice balloons.
The dialogue in the balloons in this 'final' Disney Studio version
is the same as what Gemstone printed: polished, often clever dialogue that's
clearly in American English. This text could be either
(A) Fallberg's original, unaltered character dialogue;
(B) a mixture of Fallberg's dialogue and Scarpa's dialogue, smoothed
over and Americanized by a Disney Studio editor; or
(C) pure Scarpa dialogue, Americanized by a Disney Studio editor.
Unfortunately, there's no real way of telling which of these options
is correct. Also remember that while Scarpa certainly may have revised SOME
stories that came to him from America, there might have been OTHERS that he
drew exactly in the form that he received them. So the specific case of "The
Big Break-In" proves very little about OTHER Scarpa stories of the era.
Best, David
>Now, what about "The Big Break-In" ? Is what we read in US 320
>the original Carl Fallberg script and dialogue, or is this an
>italian "rewrite" ?
The Egmont archives contain black-and-white photostats to the
'final' Disney Studio version of the story: that is to say, Scarpa art with
English language dialogue in the voice balloons.
The dialogue in the balloons in this 'final' Disney Studio version
is the same as what Gemstone printed: polished, often clever dialogue that's
clearly in American English. This text could be either
(A) Fallberg's original, unaltered character dialogue;
(B) a mixture of Fallberg's dialogue and Scarpa's dialogue, smoothed
over and Americanized by a Disney Studio editor; or
(C) pure Scarpa dialogue, Americanized by a Disney Studio editor.
Unfortunately, there's no real way of telling which of these options
is correct. Also remember that while Scarpa certainly may have revised SOME
stories that came to him from America, there might have been OTHERS that he
drew exactly in the form that he received them. So the specific case of "The
Big Break-In" proves very little about OTHER Scarpa stories of the era.
Best, David
Gerstein, David DK - ECN
On strips
Message 563 -
2003-08-22 at 18:08:40
Psalutations again, Eta,
>Indeed, here's the 3 perturbating points :
> [2 points snipped]
>
>3. The company is planning a makeover of Mickey in order
> to restore the character to its rightful position (in
> their own way of thinking) of merchandising icon.
>
>It's especially point 3 that I'm worrying about, it seems to
>me that reprinting Gottfredson's stuff wouldn't fit with the
>concept of a "new image"
And there you might be wrong! (-:
The "new image" for Disney's Mickey is something that formally began
with the new Mickey TV cartoons in 1999. It is a return to the mischievous,
enthusiastic, adventurous Mickey of the 1940s- in short, a lot like
Gottfredson's Mickey!
I've seen this Mickey wearing his red shorts, fighting with Pete,
Mortimer, and the Blot in the new TV cartoons (you read that right... they
did animate the Blot!), so you shouldn't worry too greatly that Mickey is
going to be drastically transformed...
The "makeover" should really be just a greater attempt to make
Americans AWARE of this "new/classic" Mickey. What kinds of promotion this
will involve, I'm not aware of...
David
>Indeed, here's the 3 perturbating points :
> [2 points snipped]
>
>3. The company is planning a makeover of Mickey in order
> to restore the character to its rightful position (in
> their own way of thinking) of merchandising icon.
>
>It's especially point 3 that I'm worrying about, it seems to
>me that reprinting Gottfredson's stuff wouldn't fit with the
>concept of a "new image"
And there you might be wrong! (-:
The "new image" for Disney's Mickey is something that formally began
with the new Mickey TV cartoons in 1999. It is a return to the mischievous,
enthusiastic, adventurous Mickey of the 1940s- in short, a lot like
Gottfredson's Mickey!
I've seen this Mickey wearing his red shorts, fighting with Pete,
Mortimer, and the Blot in the new TV cartoons (you read that right... they
did animate the Blot!), so you shouldn't worry too greatly that Mickey is
going to be drastically transformed...
The "makeover" should really be just a greater attempt to make
Americans AWARE of this "new/classic" Mickey. What kinds of promotion this
will involve, I'm not aware of...
David
Germund Silvegren
Disney Artwork
Message 564 -
2003-08-22 at 18:13:11
> This sounds like a good topic for others to add to. What if any
> Disney comic art do you have permanently displayed in your
> house or office?
The only Disney art I keep on my walls is Paul Murry's underwater
cover for Mickey Mouse #159 from 1975. Simply one of my most beloved
art pieces, with a menacing squid, covered in jewelry, sneaking up on
Mickey and Goofy while they are distraced by a fish carrying a
necklace. I briefly had a signed Gottfredson daily displayed too, but
it had to leave my tender care in trade for other art.
/Germund
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> Disney comic art do you have permanently displayed in your
> house or office?
The only Disney art I keep on my walls is Paul Murry's underwater
cover for Mickey Mouse #159 from 1975. Simply one of my most beloved
art pieces, with a menacing squid, covered in jewelry, sneaking up on
Mickey and Goofy while they are distraced by a fish carrying a
necklace. I briefly had a signed Gottfredson daily displayed too, but
it had to leave my tender care in trade for other art.
/Germund
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Lars Jensen
Don Christensen
Message 565 -
2003-08-22 at 20:08:12
As far as I know, Disney writer Don Christensen is still alive. Can
anybody confirm this? And does anybody know where Christensen lives
these days?
Lars
anybody confirm this? And does anybody know where Christensen lives
these days?
Lars
Timo Ronkainen
Geography in Luck of the North
Message 566 -
2003-08-22 at 20:09:52
>That was IMO unwise of them and even disrespectful to the Greenlandic
>Eskimos.
But very respectful to the original Barks' story.
>Did this so-called expert also tell you that people in Alaska look like
>Greenlandic Eskimos, lives in igloos, eats whalemeat, wear Anoraks and uses
>kayaks when moving around on water?
No, he told that no eskimos live in igloo. Familywise, like Barks depicted =
all the family lives in igloo. Eskimos, and only hunters, live in igloos
only while during hunting season. That's whta he told. Not to me.
timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kyl? 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
?? Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
?? Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
?? Kvaak-sarjakuvaportaali:
http://www.kvaak.fi
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on a cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
Tilaa nyt Hotmail postit k?nnykk??si! http://www.msn.fi/mobiili/
>Eskimos.
But very respectful to the original Barks' story.
>Did this so-called expert also tell you that people in Alaska look like
>Greenlandic Eskimos, lives in igloos, eats whalemeat, wear Anoraks and uses
>kayaks when moving around on water?
No, he told that no eskimos live in igloo. Familywise, like Barks depicted =
all the family lives in igloo. Eskimos, and only hunters, live in igloos
only while during hunting season. That's whta he told. Not to me.
timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kyl? 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
?? Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
?? Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
?? Kvaak-sarjakuvaportaali:
http://www.kvaak.fi
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on a cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
Tilaa nyt Hotmail postit k?nnykk??si! http://www.msn.fi/mobiili/
Arie Fachrisal
Egmont's English mini booklet + Strip licensing
Message 567 -
2003-08-22 at 20:32:53
Hi,
I'm unable to qutoe the messages since the digests has recently sent to my
email in one strong swoop, which is a good sign of healthy active
discussions.
Can anyone confirm that the English language used in the Egmont's mini
booklet has been altered from the original English version? The bilingual
version here has the english language altered in some areas. Some noticable
left-overs are: Goofy talks like normal characters, and small grammatical
errors ex: "What's it's all about?".
I am quite baffled by why they want to alter the original version but
amateur guess from me would be that they want to keep off "unsual" american
slangs from the stories and put in "verbally gramatically" correct
expressions and idioms.
Some of the list members have the bilingual edition i'm talking about. It
sure is a nice "trick" to print Disney stories in English. They regularly
printed a variation of Rota, van Horn, Vicar and one Rosa story. But the
altered dialogues really bugged me.
As for licensing strips:
Does this spesifically apply to Gemstone only or actually to ALL publishers
all over the not-so-round globe?
One of the list members pointed out the "Zorro" and "El Pollo" versions of
Don's 3 cabalerros story. Gary (or was it someone else?) pointed out that
it's a matter of licensing that they had to change the "Zorro" version. My
question is if licensing is the issue, shouldn't that apply to ALL
countries' versions too?
But i realized even if licensing issues apply to all countries, the other
countries will not pay much attention to such "small" licensing issues and
will probably chose to continue to print the strips, print the stories
without concerning "possible" licensing issues.
So basically Gemstone is quite pinned down because they have to care about
all this "legally" licensing stuffs while other publishers in other
countries can get away with printing something that might not pass in USA?
Keep On Quacking,
Arie Fachrisal who wants to say "Ni" to an old lady someday.
I'm unable to qutoe the messages since the digests has recently sent to my
email in one strong swoop, which is a good sign of healthy active
discussions.
Can anyone confirm that the English language used in the Egmont's mini
booklet has been altered from the original English version? The bilingual
version here has the english language altered in some areas. Some noticable
left-overs are: Goofy talks like normal characters, and small grammatical
errors ex: "What's it's all about?".
I am quite baffled by why they want to alter the original version but
amateur guess from me would be that they want to keep off "unsual" american
slangs from the stories and put in "verbally gramatically" correct
expressions and idioms.
Some of the list members have the bilingual edition i'm talking about. It
sure is a nice "trick" to print Disney stories in English. They regularly
printed a variation of Rota, van Horn, Vicar and one Rosa story. But the
altered dialogues really bugged me.
As for licensing strips:
Does this spesifically apply to Gemstone only or actually to ALL publishers
all over the not-so-round globe?
One of the list members pointed out the "Zorro" and "El Pollo" versions of
Don's 3 cabalerros story. Gary (or was it someone else?) pointed out that
it's a matter of licensing that they had to change the "Zorro" version. My
question is if licensing is the issue, shouldn't that apply to ALL
countries' versions too?
But i realized even if licensing issues apply to all countries, the other
countries will not pay much attention to such "small" licensing issues and
will probably chose to continue to print the strips, print the stories
without concerning "possible" licensing issues.
So basically Gemstone is quite pinned down because they have to care about
all this "legally" licensing stuffs while other publishers in other
countries can get away with printing something that might not pass in USA?
Keep On Quacking,
Arie Fachrisal who wants to say "Ni" to an old lady someday.
SRoweCanoe
Don Christensen
Message 568 -
2003-08-22 at 20:56:10
while it's been a few years since i wrote Don C, i would assume he is still a
fixture in the LA comics pro community
steven rowe
fixture in the LA comics pro community
steven rowe
Daniel Van Eijmeren
Pockets in Scrooge's Coat?
Message 569 -
2003-08-22 at 20:59:49
NILS KLARTEKST, 21-08-2003:
> Inspired by Olaf's success as a Disney writer, I sent a synopsis of
> a Scrooge story to Egmont. They liked it and want to put it into
> production!!!
Congratulations!
> Does anyone know if it has ever been established that Scrooge's coat
> has pockets? Have we ever seen him carry anything in his pockets?
> Have the pockets ever actually been shown in a Barks story?
I remember at least once instance. It's a Barks gag in which Scrooge
is feeding a horse (US 23-06). One of his pockets is clearly shown.
--- Dani?l
> Inspired by Olaf's success as a Disney writer, I sent a synopsis of
> a Scrooge story to Egmont. They liked it and want to put it into
> production!!!
Congratulations!
> Does anyone know if it has ever been established that Scrooge's coat
> has pockets? Have we ever seen him carry anything in his pockets?
> Have the pockets ever actually been shown in a Barks story?
I remember at least once instance. It's a Barks gag in which Scrooge
is feeding a horse (US 23-06). One of his pockets is clearly shown.
--- Dani?l
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Somewhere in Nowhere - when will we see it?
Message 570 -
2003-08-22 at 22:36:50
H.W.Fluks at telecom.tno.nl wrote:
> Another question is if there is any connection
> between the price demanded for this story and
> Don Rosa's strike a few years later?
>
> There is no connection at all. I have the
> impression that you have no idea what Don's
> strike was about.
I probably know MORE about it than you would think I do - so please stop
using such harsh and even irrelevant arguments.
> (BTW, there's no need to go further into this
> matter. It's not relevant here anyway.)
I agree!
> - As there obviously is no reason to pay
> Lustig/Block any better than Don.
>
> Obviously? Can you explain how I should read
> this sentence, while also keeping in mind what
> you wrote: "I have been too critical towards
> too many artist/creators"?
Is it so difficult? OK! Paying people can be done two ways:
a) Same work - same sallary.
b) People are paid what they are worth in the market.
This means:
a) Lustig/Block should be payed eqaully to Don Rosa.
b) Lustig/Block should be payed lower than Don Rosa (ref. the marketprices
in Sweden).
> And what about Barks? Why do you only mention
> Lustig/Block as people-to-be-paid for that
> story?
I don't know when that story was offered to Egmont:
1) If Barks was still alive he probably deserved such a pay - he was a
legend!
2) If Barks was dead by then he would have no use for that money anyway.
And, Harry it would have been nice if you had commented my question about
when we will see this story in Scandinavia.
Sigvald
> Another question is if there is any connection
> between the price demanded for this story and
> Don Rosa's strike a few years later?
>
> There is no connection at all. I have the
> impression that you have no idea what Don's
> strike was about.
I probably know MORE about it than you would think I do - so please stop
using such harsh and even irrelevant arguments.
> (BTW, there's no need to go further into this
> matter. It's not relevant here anyway.)
I agree!
> - As there obviously is no reason to pay
> Lustig/Block any better than Don.
>
> Obviously? Can you explain how I should read
> this sentence, while also keeping in mind what
> you wrote: "I have been too critical towards
> too many artist/creators"?
Is it so difficult? OK! Paying people can be done two ways:
a) Same work - same sallary.
b) People are paid what they are worth in the market.
This means:
a) Lustig/Block should be payed eqaully to Don Rosa.
b) Lustig/Block should be payed lower than Don Rosa (ref. the marketprices
in Sweden).
> And what about Barks? Why do you only mention
> Lustig/Block as people-to-be-paid for that
> story?
I don't know when that story was offered to Egmont:
1) If Barks was still alive he probably deserved such a pay - he was a
legend!
2) If Barks was dead by then he would have no use for that money anyway.
And, Harry it would have been nice if you had commented my question about
when we will see this story in Scandinavia.
Sigvald