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Topic: 200308

(787 messages)
Daniel Van Eijmeren
SIGVALD GROSFJELD to RICH BELLACERA, 29-08-2003:

>> 1) Magica de Spell
>> -Scrooge nemesis who wants his No.1 Dime as she believes it to be
>> a talisman of great "luck". She is probably the BEST known of Disney
>> witches in comics.

> You are into a very interesting subject, but you seem to forget about
> one thing here - AFAIK Magica is a sorceress *not* a real witch like
> most of the other characters in your list.

In Barks's "Ten-cent Valentine" (WDC 258), Scrooge calls Magica both a
sorceress *and* a witch. The witch-reference can be found in panel 9.8:
"Drop your WEAPONS, you witch!"

So, looking at this story, it's discussable if Magica De Spell is a
sorceress or a witch.

--- Dani?l

"Did another missile blow up on the launching pad?"
Olaf Solstrand
Our favorite Sigvald wrote:
> Maybe so, but no matter how Swedish this person claims to be, his first
> name
> is *not* a real Swedish name. 20 typical Swedish male names are:
> (...)

20 typical Norwegian male names are:
Arne, Eirik, Espen, Finn, Gaute, Geir, Gunnar, Hans, Jens, Jostein, Kurt,
Martin, Nils, Ola, Per, Petter, Ronny, Svein, Tor, Vidar.

Conclusion: Sigvald is not Norwegian.

Please, Sigvald.

Frankly, I don't think this has anything to do on a list about Disney Comics -
but here it goes: SWEDEN HAS MORE THAN TWENTY NAMES. And if a name
is "typically German" and not "typically Swedish", that doesn't mean the
_person_ is not Swedish.

Just like William Van Horn can be an American even though he has a "Van" in his
name. It's not that hard, really - names go on and on for generations, thus
they can be a little "international" as a result of people moving around in the
world.

Like you, I think the name "Horst" sounds a little German - who hasn't seen
Derrick? - but that still does not make a Swede with the name Horst German.

What do you think of second/third generation immigrants in Norway
with "typically Indian" names? Are they less Norwegian than you and me?

We're all immigrants in a way, and some of us keep "foreign" names.

And - dear Swedish friends, this is not intended to be rude, but - why on earth
would anyone *claim to be* Swedish?

Olaf
Daniel Van Eijmeren
CORD WILJES to RODANEY BOWCOCK and me, 28-08-2003:

> Maybe we should take more drastic measures like traveling back in time to
> old California and claim the copyright on Mickey Mouse before anyone else
> does.

That's dangerous. What would happen if Walt Disney decides to drop the idea
of Mickey Mouse, because it already has been copyrighted by the potential
audience? That means no Mickey Mouse, no Gottfredson books, and therefore
no reason to go back to old California to make them affordable...

--- Dani?l
Gunnarsson, Joakim SE - HMJ
Sigvald wrote:
> 20 typical Swedish male names are:
> Anders
> Bengt
> Benjamin
> Bo
> Carl
[...]

Sooo... That will make Carl Barks a swede. :-)

Seriously now.
Horst is from Germany but for many, many years he lived in Sweden.
Long enough to become a swedish citizen. But I don't know if he
actually became that.
Maybe he still lives in Sweden. It's been a few years since I saw
him.

/Joakim.
Sgarciab
Daniel:

>>"Very good show! Here is a REWARD for you and your talented reptile!"
(Which Barks story?)

Could it be a Scrooge gag?

Santiago.
Daniel Van Eijmeren
OLIVIER, 28-08-2003:

>> "Call the doctor again!" (Which Barks story?)

> Could it be from the lost coin story? The one where Donald loses a coin,
> and one persons picks it, then another, and the last one eventually drops
> it from a plane (thinking it might bring him bad luck). It's a rare coin,
> hence Donald's reaction. When the coin ricochets and lands on his desk and
> he finds it, he loses his mind. Is that it?

Yes, it's the story about a five hundred dollar dime (WDC 50).

In this story, Donald acts like a prehistoric Uncle Scrooge:
- he has a safe with a funny mark ("O. Shurits Safe co")
- he collects and polishes coins
- he's stingy, he doesn't want to give money to the nephews ("O.K! But stop
bein' such spendthrifts! I gave you a dime not over a week ago!")
- he desperately chases a dime, trying to get it back
- superstitious thoughts about a dime (someone says it brings bad luck, 9.2)

And last but certainly not least, panel 1.1 contains a figurine of a duck
which basically looks like Scrooge without whiskers.

--- Dani?l

"Very good show! Here is a REWARD for you and your talented reptile!"
(Which Barks story?)
Olivier
Dani?l:

>>> In Barks's "Ten-cent Valentine" (WDC 258), Scrooge calls Magica both a
>>> sorceress *and* a witch. The witch-reference can be found in panel 9.8:
>>> "Drop your WEAPONS, you witch!"

>> So, looking at this story, it's discussable if Magica De Spell is a
>> sorceress or a witch.

Well, "witch" here is used in a pejorative way more than by reference to
what she actually is. You can call a woman a "hag", a "crone", or a "witch",
regardless of her actually being one; "sorceress" is just too long for such
a use.
So I don't think it's conclusive here.

Now, I must very humbly say I'm a bit confused as to the nuances between
witch, sorcerer(ess), magician, wizard, ...
I infer that one possesses innate magical powers (the wizard, I guess),
whereas the other uses spells and magic objects.

From the dictionary (Cambridge)--
witch: a woman who is believed to have magical powers and who uses them to
harm or help other people.
wizard: a man who is believed to have magical powers and who uses them to
harm or help other people.
sorcery: a type of magic in which spirits, esp evil ones, are used to make
things happen
magician: a magician is a person who has magic powers in stories, or who
performs tricks as entertainment

Cord's http://www.dcml-talk.org/list.php?f=1 may be a more appropriate
place to develop the difference and discussion, a relatively short answer
being enough to clarify the nuance here. (jsut a humble suggestion)

>>>> "Did another missile blow up on the launching pad?"

Isn't that from the Valentine Magica story? Or maybe simply here first
appearance?
In any case, that's Donald's line after being foof bombed. I believe the
panel shows him staggering, seeing stars.

Olivier
Daniel Van Eijmeren
RICH BELLACERA, 28-08-2003:

> I'm taking inventory of Disney's witches and hopefully some of you
> can clarify a few points for me.

I very much enjoyed your witches list. What a variation!

> 1) Magica de Spell [...]
> Magica currently lives in an old shack on the side of Mount Vesuvius.

In at least one Barks story, Magica is permanently watched by two observers
who are working for Scrooge.

> 3) Witch Hazel or Hazel Witch
> Her residence is unknown, but is presumably also somewhere in the forest.
> She has no familiar of which I am aware, but she does share a rapport with
> her flying broom which she calls Beelzebub. Beelzebub is a fully animated
> character. Her encounters have been mostly with the Ducks and Mouses and
> sometimes with the other witches. She is not fully good or evil.

At least Frank Jonker has teamed Witch Hazel ("Hortensia Heks") with Madam
Mim. I can't remember if the broom Beelzebub always acts as if it's alive,
or if it sometimes just seems that way because Hazel is talking to it like
a pet.

> 5) Hexis Witch
> The nephew of Hazel Witch who rides a motorized broom.

Magica also has used a motorized broom, it's shown in Barks's Junior
Woodchuck story "Bottled Battlers" (JW 10).

> 7) Granny de Spell
> A portrait of Whistler's Mother aptly describes her appearance. She
> seems to be just an old sage who tends to annoy Magica.

Does Granny de Spell appear in those stories in which Magica and Madam Mim
live together in a castle? I *love* those stories and the zany, motionless
way the characters are drawn! Who's the artist of these stories?

Maybe it's youth sentiment, if I would have to clarify myself for liking
these particular stories. But hey, isn't a story actually very good when a
kid fondly likes it for the rest of his/her life? And, at the same time,
I also liked Barks very much (not knowing his name), so I can't say I had
a bad taste at the time.

BTW. I'm defending myself against a friend, who thought I was crazy for
liking these stories. (Hi!)

--- Dani?l, who has to hurry for lunch...

P.S. I've found out that a hunger strike is very hard with an empty stomach.
And I don't want to give up, so that's why I need lots of food and vitamins
to keep me going on. (You can sponsor me, by the way!)
Cord Wiljes
CORD WILJES to RODANEY BOWCOCK and me, 28-08-2003:

>> Maybe we should take more drastic measures like traveling
>> back in time to old California and claim the copyright on Mickey Mouse
>> before anyone else does.

Daniel van Eijmeren:
> That's dangerous. What would happen if Walt Disney decides to
> drop the idea of Mickey Mouse, because it already has been
> copyrighted by the potential audience? That means no Mickey
> Mouse, no Gottfredson books, and therefore no reason to go back
> to old California to make them affordable...

...and no travelling back in time so no pre-copyright and thus Disney
will not have been had (future perfect II *g*) no reason to drop the idea.
Or he will not drop it right away. So essentially he has no choice,
regardless of what I do.

Cord
Cord Wiljes
I suppose Horst Schroeder actually is a double anti-spy who actually *is*
Swedish but just assumed a false German name so he can pretend to be a double
spy pretending to be German spying for the Swedes while in fact he *is* spying
for the Swedes but just pretending to be a German spy.

Cord Wiljes
(who, in spite of his name, is *not* a Dutchman spying in Germany but a German
spying on the Germans. Now that I have told you this I will have to eliminate
myself.)
SRoweCanoe
In a message dated 8/29/2003 8:01:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>> Maybe we should take more drastic measures like traveling
>> back in time to old California and claim the copyright on Mickey Mouse
>> before anyone else does.
wouldnt work, there was already a Mickey and Minnie Mouse copyrighted by
\Johnny Gruelle prior to Walt Disney's Mickey.....

sr
Cord Wiljes
Cord Wiljes:
>> Maybe we should take more drastic measures like traveling
>> back in time to old California and claim the copyright on Mickey Mouse
>> before anyone else does.

Steve Rowe:
> wouldnt work, there was already a Mickey and Minnie Mouse copyrighted by
\Johnny Gruelle prior to Walt Disney's Mickey.....

Johnny Gruelle claimed a copyright on the names "Mickey and Minnie Mouse" before
D?sney invented them? Or on the characters after Disney invented them? In the
later case I suppose that just by using them for the first time in public Disney
got copyright status on the figures (at least he would have according to German
law).

My plan was going back to a point in time before Disney invented Mickey. To be
sure it would be best to chose a time before Disney's birth.

Cord
SRoweCanoe
In a message dated 8/29/2003 8:19:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cord at wiljes.de
writes:
Johnny Gruelle claimed a copyright on the names "Mickey and Minnie Mouse"
before D?sney invented them? Or on the characters after Disney invented them?
no, on the names only (2-3 years prior to Disney) after he invented mickey
and minnie :-),
you folks with the time machine need both copyright and trademark

sr (who notes he hasnt seen gruelle's mice, just his ducks and dolls)
Olivier
Olaf:

>>> And - dear Swedish friends, this is not intended to be rude, but - why
on earth
>>> would anyone *claim to be* Swedish?

I can think of pretty blonde reasons ;) -- though you can find other
such pretty reasons in other countries, indeed

Dani?l:
>>>--- Dani?l, who has to hurry for lunch...
>>>P.S. I've found out that a hunger strike is very hard with an empty
stomach.
>>>And I don't want to give up, so that's why I need lots of food and
vitamins
>>>to keep me going on. (You can sponsor me, by the way!)

Hilarious!

--- Copyright Isue ---
Remember the wall painting of a Mickey Mouse-looking character?
Maybe some DCML member did try to go back in the past, something went wrong,
(s)he got trapped in prehistoric times, and left that drawing for us. He
should have made it clear he was applying for a copyright on the mouse,
though.

Olivier
Gary Leach
Not to derail a potentially lively discussion, but if I was asked to
come up with a list of Disney witches, I would immediately include
Magica. And that is because, like lots and lots and lots - in fact,
almost all Americans - the term "witch" immediately means a woman who
flings magic around. Argue semantics and the basis of Magica's actual
capabilities around all you like, that's how it shakes out here.

Gary